Choosing the Right Enkei PF01's for a M3P

[Carskick]

Hey Guys,

TLR - Trying to determine which Enkei PF01 size is best for my application on a M3P, and do I need spacers, hub adapters, etc.

I have an M3P on order and I think want to sell off the included 20" Uberturbine wheels & tires while they are new and have max value. I don't want tires that low profile or that narrow, and the wheels are heavy. My goal is to get a wheel/tire combo that improves performance without sacrificing range. Normally this is difficult, but I believe by going to a lighter, wider 18" wheel, & a stickier tire I can get better performance, more comfort, and have similar range. Here's what I'm thinking:

Enkei PF01 in either of the following configurations:

Staggered:
F: 18x8.5 +35 w/ 235/45R18
R: 18x9.5 +35 w/ 265/40R18

or

All Around:
18x9.5 +35 w/ 265/40R18

I currently have PF01 on my old car that I'm selling (sizes are wrong anyways), and I'm very happy with them. They look great, they're strong, they're light, and they're affordable.

So now the questions become:
1. Will these sizes clear suspension/fenders/calipers? (I believe so, but would like thoughts on this)
2. Stagger or not to Stagger?
3. Do I need a hub adapter with these wheels, as they have a larger 75mm bore?

My thoughts:
1. I'd rather not use spacers if I don't have to. These tire/wheels combos keep the scrub radius at zero while still clearing everything (I believe). They also have almost the exact same total diameter as stock (Can a Tesla be manual recalibrated for different tire size?). Is there any kind of fitment issues I'm not thinking of? Trying to avoid rubbing or other related issues.
2. For maximizing Handling, Stagger or don't stagger. I assume, skinnier tires up front will get better range and more oversteer, but will it actually handle better? Also, the tires I really want (Continental ExtremeContact Sports) don't come in the 235/45R18, so I'd have to go with a different option. Thoughts?
3. I assume with a 75mm bore, I would not need any type of adapter even with Tesla's hubs, since they're only 64mm

Thank you in advance for all your help! Can't wait to join the Tesla ownership club (Should be here mid to late March)!

 

[MODEL+]

I personally would go for the more aggressive 18x9.5 +27

Many had gotten away with 18x9.5 +22 on 255 or 265 tires around here.

1. Will these sizes clear suspension/fenders/calipers? (I believe so, but would like thoughts on this)
This should definitely clear suspension knuckles and brake calipers.

2. Stagger or not to Stagger?
I would run square set up for this.

3. Do I need a hub adapter with these wheels, as they have a larger 75mm bore?
You should, but it's going to be hard finding hub rings of 75mm bore that also fits over the stepped cutout on M3P. These wheels should be lug centric, but do your due diligence on that.

 

[Bigtuna00]

I too was concerned about the affect the wider tires would have on steering. Having switched from 235 to 255, I can feel zero difference in steering. In retrospect I should have just gone with 275's all around for max grip. This is just to say, I see no reason to run staggered tires at all. The effect on over/understeer will be minute, and you can always dial that with adjustable sway bars. If you want max grip, run 275 square. If you really care about range, run a narrower square setup.

 

[Carskick]

Thank you for the info. That car looks fantastic, yours?

Glad they should fit and I'm currently leaning towards the square setup. I'd have a good mechanic put on the wheels, but a Tesla specific hub adapter would be nice. I'd think adapters for these cars would exist by now, guess I just gotta do some research.

I love the thick meaty look of those tires, but I wonder if that's stock camber. Looks increased a bit, so I assume they have the adjustable camber kit. The reason I'm hoping the +35's fit is so I don't change the scrub radius, though 8mm isn't much. I also would prefer slightly less poke than the pictures. Mostly due to it throwing road debris all over the car. Put Mudflaps on my old after going to larger wheels for this reason.

This is what I'm coming from:

Those were the PF01 18x8.5 +48s. I want them to poke LESS than this but a tiny amount.

 

[Carskick]

I too was concerned about the affect the wider tires would have on steering. Having switched from 235 to 255, I can feel zero difference in steering. In retrospect I should have just gone with 275's all around for max grip. This is just to say, I see no reason to run staggered tires at all. The effect on over/understeer will be minute, and you can always dial that with adjustable sway bars. If you want max grip, run 275 square. If you really care about range, run a narrower square setup.

Thank you for your input! Yeah, I'm leaning towards the 265 square setup. Especially since I want less poke and the +35 offset, I'm worries 275's may get too close to the suspension, but IDK how to find this out ahead of time, other than seeing that others have run similar setups. I'm surprised a performance car of this weight only comes with 235's, but I know it's because of range. But why they didn't go with a smaller, lighter wheel that wider is beyond me...

 

[Bigtuna00]

Because big shiny wheels sell cars 99% of buyers, even Performance buyers, probably will never think about it. But they will complain about range!

 

[SummerlinChiro]

You can get the adaptor rings from www.motorsport-tech.com

 

[MODEL+]

Thank you for the info. That car looks fantastic, yours?

Glad they should fit and I'm currently leaning towards the square setup. I'd have a good mechanic put on the wheels, but a Tesla specific hub adapter would be nice. I'd think adapters for these cars would exist by now, guess I just gotta do some research.

I love the thick meaty look of those tires, but I wonder if that's stock camber. Looks increased a bit, so I assume they have the adjustable camber kit. The reason I'm hoping the +35's fit is so I don't change the scrub radius, though 8mm isn't much. I also would prefer slightly less poke than the pictures. Mostly due to it throwing road debris all over the car. Put Mudflaps on my old after going to larger wheels for this reason.

This is what I'm coming from:

Those were the PF01 18x8.5 +48s. I want them to poke LESS than this but a tiny amount.

That car belongs to @Nichigo , maybe he can chime in more on his set up. He's got the best looking setup on 18s IMO, that's why used his picture as reference for you.

 

[Nichigo]

Hey Guys,

TLR - Trying to determine which Enkei PF01 size is best for my application on a M3P, and do I need spacers, hub adapters, etc.

I have an M3P on order and I think want to sell off the included 20" Uberturbine wheels & tires while they are new and have max value. I don't want tires that low profile or that narrow, and the wheels are heavy. My goal is to get a wheel/tire combo that improves performance without sacrificing range. Normally this is difficult, but I believe by going to a lighter, wider 18" wheel, & a stickier tire I can get better performance, more comfort, and have similar range. Here's what I'm thinking:

Enkei PF01 in either of the following configurations:

Staggered:
F: 18x8.5 +35 w/ 235/45R18
R: 18x9.5 +35 w/ 265/40R18

or

All Around:
18x9.5 +35 w/ 265/40R18

I currently have PF01 on my old car that I'm selling (sizes are wrong anyways), and I'm very happy with them. They look great, they're strong, they're light, and they're affordable.

So now the questions become:
1. Will these sizes clear suspension/fenders/calipers? (I believe so, but would like thoughts on this)
2. Stagger or not to Stagger?
3. Do I need a hub adapter with these wheels, as they have a larger 75mm bore?

My thoughts:
1. I'd rather not use spacers if I don't have to. These tire/wheels combos keep the scrub radius at zero while still clearing everything (I believe). They also have almost the exact same total diameter as stock (Can a Tesla be manual recalibrated for different tire size?). Is there any kind of fitment issues I'm not thinking of? Trying to avoid rubbing or other related issues.
2. For maximizing Handling, Stagger or don't stagger. I assume, skinnier tires up front will get better range and more oversteer, but will it actually handle better? Also, the tires I really want (Continental ExtremeContact Sports) don't come in the 235/45R18, so I'd have to go with a different option. Thoughts?
3. I assume with a 75mm bore, I would not need any type of adapter even with Tesla's hubs, since they're only 64mm

Thank you in advance for all your help! Can't wait to join the Tesla ownership club (Should be here mid to late March)!

Some quick opinions/thoughts:

1. Those will clear no problem, but the offset is too conservative if you want to avoid spacers. I have 18x9.5 +22 w/ 255 tires all around and I still think I could go a few mm even more aggressive...especially in the rear.

2. Non-stagger, but for different reasons: the difference in range between a wider tire/wheel in the front will be negligible. Go for non-stagger because it's easier to shop for a set of 4 identical tires and also easier to resell a non-staggered set. Side note: smaller tires up front will tend towards understeer not oversteer since there is more grip in the rear. I don't have enough experience with the car in hard driving situations to comment on whether you need to bias understeer in the tires to make up for any snap oversteer tendencies of the car. I haven't really read any reports on oversteer issues...so would tend towards more meat up front.

3. Don't need hub rings...the importance of these are overrated. I spoke with EvasiveMotorsports on getting hub rings, and they said lug centric is more than enough. You'll only need hub rings if you notice vibrations on the car. They have an immense amount of track experience with this car so i'm taking their word for it

One last note that is completely my preference: Would go for 265/35 or 255/40 tire. I think either of those have the best sidewall ratio. 265/40 might be too much sidewall from an aesthetic perspective.

PF01's are great wheels. Good choice and welcome to the club!

 

[SummerlinChiro]

Non-stagger, but for different reasons: the difference in range between a wider tire/wheel in the front will be negligible. Go for non-stagger because it's easier to shop for a set of 4 identical tires and also easier to resell a non-staggered set. Side note: smaller tires up front will tend towards understeer not oversteer since there is more grip in the rear.

Good stuff, but be aware that sometimes the increased spring rate of the lower sidewall overwhelms the effect of the wider tire, so you don't necessary have more understeer with wider tires on the back.

Square setups on my 3 series understeer more than wider tires in the back due to this.

 

[Mash]

I have 19x9.5 30 and 275. They fit fine. Go with a square setup and it's not fixable by sway bars.

There are no lug centric wheels exist. Can you put the whole car weight on lugs? Yes, but car is designed to sit on a hub and not on lugs. Vibrations and significantly higher stress is a safety issue, despite advices of professionals. Tesla is heavy and have a lot of torque to ignore that.

 

[Nichigo]

I have 19x9.5 30 and 275. They fit fine. Go with a square setup and it's not fixable by sway bars.

There are no lug centric wheels exist. Can you put the whole car weight on lugs? Yes, but car is designed to sit on a hub and not on lugs. Vibrations and significantly higher stress is a safety issue, despite advices of professionals. Tesla is heavy and have a lot of torque to ignore that.

check out this tire rack article:

https://www.discounttire.com/learn/hub-rings

Hubs rings bear no weight. All they do is help align the wheel to avoid vibrations...which typically won’t happen if the wheels and tires were balanced correctly by a tire shop (their balance machines are not hub centric)

 

[Mash]

check out this tire rack article:

https://www.discounttire.com/learn/hub-rings

Hubs rings bear no weight. All they do is help align the wheel to avoid vibrations...which typically won’t happen if the wheels and tires were balanced correctly by a tire shop (their balance machines are not hub centric)

Your link doesn't work for me.

But, no, hub lip is what holds the weight. Lugs resist lateral movement. Certainly lugs also resist vertical movement, but it's not their job. It's a simple force geometry. Also you will have a hard time finding any tire balancing machine that uses lugs to center it, so pretty much all of them hub centric exclusively.

 

[dsgerbc]

Last time I was researching PF01s (and 18" wheels for the Performance in general) I remember running into info (on this forum) that those require spacers to clear performance calipers in the rear.

I don't there's any point in staggered setups except for looks.

Wider tires on lighter rims *WILL NOT* yield similar efficiency. You'll lose a ton of range, if you care about that.

There are no lug centric wheels exist. Can you put the whole car weight on lugs? Yes, but car is designed to sit on a hub and not on lugs. Vibrations and significantly higher stress is a safety issue, despite advices of professionals. Tesla is heavy and have a lot of torque to ignore that.

You can safely ignore this opinion. The hub and the wheels are machined precise enough to help you mount the wheels easier, but not precise enough to be only thing that centers the wheels, at least not on this car. Lugs DO center the wheel, and if you take your time to tighten your lugs gradually, you'll be fine. The hub bears zero weight under load. If it does, it means your lugs have broken off and your wheel is gonna come flying anyway.

If you can get a hub-centric wheel, it's nice and makes it easier to mount them, and easier to care for the hub. If not - not a big deal.
Plastic hub rings will melt if you take them to the track. Metal ones will rust in place and be a bitch to remove.

 

[Mash]

You can safely ignore this opinion. The hub and the wheels are machined precise enough to help you mount the wheels easier, but not precise enough to be only thing that centers the wheels, at least not on this car. Lugs DO center the wheel, and if you take your time to tighten your lugs gradually, you'll be fine. The hub bears zero weight under load. If it does, it means your lugs have broken off and your wheel is gonna come flying anyway.

This is not an opinion - it's just basic facts that you choose to ignore. Look at how you ignore all the facts I provide and just repeat your beliefs. Doesn't matter how many times you say "you will be fine" - your logic is wrong, your statements are incorrect and you just keep spreading misinformation.

Nobody connects the wheel on the tire balancer by lug holes - they all balanced by the hub center. They also machined as hub-centric. All of them. No OEM does a hub without a hard metal lip that is always precisely machined to offload weight from the lug. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's right.

Aftermarket manufacturers made up the whole story of lug-centric and spread this myth because they can't stock too many SKUs of wheels with different bores. Proper aluminum rings are not rusting and not sticking to the hub - just like the wheel itself doesn't. If you can't get the proper bore size - at least get proper size aluminum rings.

 

[dsgerbc]

Balancing the wheel using the center bore is totally fine and ( is quicker than bolting the lugnuts), because the center bore IS machined to be circular around the center of the wheel. What it is NOT - something that is machined precisely to fit the car snugly and bear any load.
If it were, it'd be a lot more snug, and require some hoops to jump through to mount. The hub that is supposed to bear some load would also be a solid chunk of metal, not a thin ring.

Physics 101: the static friction force in the hub-to-wheel mounting surface bears ALL the load. The only thing it needs is for the lugs to be clamped/torqued properly. The only load the hubcentric ever gets (before breaking off violently once the static friction in hub surface is broken somehow) is the preload that may have been created during torqueing of the lug nuts.

Galvanic corrosion is absolutely a thing for hub rings. Good luck chiseling those our after a few years on.

 

[Nichigo]

This is not an opinion - it's just basic facts that you choose to ignore. Look at how you ignore all the facts I provide and just repeat your beliefs. Doesn't matter how many times you say "you will be fine" - your logic is wrong, your statements are incorrect and you just keep spreading misinformation.

Nobody connects the wheel on the tire balancer by lug holes - they all balanced by the hub center. They also machined as hub-centric. All of them. No OEM does a hub without a hard metal lip that is always precisely machined to offload weight from the lug. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's right.

Aftermarket manufacturers made up the whole story of lug-centric and spread this myth because they can't stock too many SKUs of wheels with different bores. Proper aluminum rings are not rusting and not sticking to the hub - just like the wheel itself doesn't. If you can't get the proper bore size - at least get proper size aluminum rings.

Where’s the data of cars studs breaking off because of lack of hubcentric wheels and adapters? There is a ridiculous amount of ppl on this forum and other forums that track their cars successfully and safely on aftermarket wheels without a hub ring over long periods of time with no issues.

I ran pretty aggressive wheels on my previous wide bodied car with no hub rings and tracked/autoxed the car over the 10 years of ownership and didn’t have a single issue related to wheel hubs.

I don’t disagree that having a hub ring or hubcentric wheels is a good thing. I just think it’s significance pertaining to safety is extremely overrated given the overwhelming number of people that do not have issues that can be pointed to hubs as a cause. I would say it’s a nice to have and not a need to have.

 

[MODEL+]

Something to think about...
If the wheel relied on the hub to carry most of its forces, you'd think manufacturers would be a little more generous with the amount of lip they give you on the hub heh?

I am pro hub-centric ring myself, but not because I believe that's the part doing all the heavy lifting (literally). Hub centric simply gives me an extra peace of mind and it's easier to align wheels (especially on European cars that uses lug studs instead of bolts).

 

[Mash]

Balancing the wheel using the center bore is totally fine and ( is quicker than bolting the lugnuts), because the center bore IS machined to be circular around the center of the wheel. What it is NOT - something that is machined precisely to fit the car snugly and bear any load.
If it were, it'd be a lot more snug, and require some hoops to jump through to mount. The hub that is supposed to bear some load would also be a solid chunk of metal, not a thin ring.

Physics 101: the static friction force in the hub-to-wheel mounting surface bears ALL the load. The only thing it needs is for the lugs to be clamped/torqued properly. The only load the hubcentric ever gets (before breaking off violently once the static friction in hub surface is broken somehow) is the preload that may have been created during torqueing of the lug nuts.

Galvanic corrosion is absolutely a thing for hub rings. Good luck chiseling those our after a few years on.

Hub is made out of quite hard steel, and while it's true that friction takes a lot of load - it's the lip that stops the wheel from overstretching the lug.

Did you thought about why there is no galvanic corrosion of aluminium wheel? Maybe alloy matters?

 

[Mash]

Where’s the data of cars studs breaking off because of lack of hubcentric wheels and adapters? There is a ridiculous amount of ppl on this forum and other forums that track their cars successfully and safely on aftermarket wheels without a hub ring over long periods of time with no issues.

I ran pretty aggressive wheels on my previous wide bodied car with no hub rings and tracked/autoxed the car over the 10 years of ownership and didn’t have a single issue related to wheel hubs.

I don’t disagree that having a hub ring or hubcentric wheels is a good thing. I just think it’s significance pertaining to safety is extremely overrated given the overwhelming number of people that do not have issues that can be pointed to hubs as a cause. I would say it’s a nice to have and not a need to have.

Oh, well, if it was breaking up instantly, I guess lug centric myth would be abandoned long time ago. Does it mean there is actually no difference? Then why the hell 100% of OEM bothered about it? Those guys don't like wasting their money. And machining that lip on the hub is a lot of CNC cost and material loss.

Your 10 years of experience is nothing compared to thousands of people who can get reinforcement of misleading belief.

Breaking lugs or unscrewing nuts is not a rare incident. And then people blame tire shops or lugs instead of themselves.