Clean Technica: Tesla Model 3 Cheaper Than Honda Accord (5 year cost)

[scubastevo80]

$3.699/ Gal and $0.08/ kwh here

And we're at $3.09/gal and $0.20/kwh in our part of NJ. These calculations are really situational. The ~$400 in savings over electricity is easily offset by the increased price of insurance. The benefits of less "maintenance" and trips to a gas station over the long haul is the real net positive for our family.

 

[EinSV]

I am pointing out that the savings should be discounted by whatever extra money a household pays during the day in order to get cheap night-time rates.

Your assumption that switching to a TOU plan imposes extra costs appears incorrect -- the evidence I have seen suggests that switching to a TOU plan saves customers money overall because they typically switch high power uses to off-peak hours. California utilities prep nation's biggest time-of-use rate rollout

In my case, for example, my electric bill actually dropped after I had my first Tesla because the cost of charging my car was more than offset by savings from switching other heavy electricity uses to off peak and partial peak.

In any case, TOU plans are likely to increasingly become standard in many parts of the country since they encourage customers to switch their use to when electricity is cheaper and save money overall because they reduce the need for utilities to build and operate expensive peak power systems. For example, the three biggest utilities in CA plan to make TOU standard over the next couple years.

Bottom line:

(1) The actual off-peak charging rate (usually night time) is the one most customers who are on a TOU plan will pay for charging.
(2) At the end of the day, whether you use 10c/kWh or 13c/kWh as the average electricity price doesn't matter that much since the savings for fueling a Model 3 v. Accord/Camry are substantial regardless of which number you use.

 

[brkaus]

I pay $30/mo for unlimited charging of two Tesla’s (S & 3).

The 3 might come close to an econo car with that electric price, but no way for the S.

Still, glad I have them. Not an investment.

 

[SageBrush]

Your assumption that switching to a TOU plan imposes extra costs appears incorrect -- the evidence I have seen suggests that switching to a TOU plan saves customers money overall because they typically switch high power uses to off-peak hours. California utilities prep nation's biggest time-of-use rate rollout

In my case, for example, my electric bill actually dropped after I had my first Tesla because the cost of charging my car was more than offset by savings from switching other heavy electricity uses to off peak and partial peak.

In any case, TOU plans are likely to increasingly become standard in many parts of the country since they encourage customers to switch their use to when electricity is cheaper and save money overall because they reduce the need for utilities to build and operate expensive peak power systems. For example, the three biggest utilities in CA plan to make TOU standard over the next couple years.

You are right that TOU *can* save money if people respond to the price signals but summer and a desire to run A/C in a large swath of the country at high peak rates should not be ignored in the cost analysis. Your favorable experience is a mixture of living in Colorado, a willingness (and ability) to time shift loads, and a partial year accounting.

I was at a meeting of the Board of Directors of an electric Co-op in SW Colorado this year where TOU was discussed. The Co-op was very much in favor of it as a ways to curb residential PV but their own data reported a 2% voluntary switch in the community.

Don't get me wrong -- I am completely in favor of TOU since it sends the correct price signal to consumers to use cheap clean energy when available and to switch to EVs. I was only pointing out that the above article was an incomplete reckoning of costs (and savings.)

 

[afadeev]

I am pointing out that the savings should be discounted by whatever extra money a household pays during the day in order to get cheap night-time rates.

Your assumption that switching to a TOU plan imposes extra costs appears incorrect -- the evidence I have seen suggests that switching to a TOU plan saves customers money overall because they typically switch high power uses to off-peak hours. California utilities prep nation's biggest time-of-use rate rollout

I wish that was true.
I really wanted to switch to TOU plan here in NJ, but the bulk of my electricity consumption is in the summer, and is driven by the AC needs for the house. Time-of-day (aka RT) plans fully DOUBLE the "peak" electricity rate required to keep the house livable in the summer, and that easily exceeds any savings from night EV charging rate.

If anyone in NJ figured out a way to make TOU, RT, TBR, or GST rate plans work for them - please speak up.
Otherwise, TOU remains a loosing shell-game for me:
https://www.firstenergycorp.com/con...er Choice/Files/New Jersey/PriceToCompare.pdf

In my case, for example, my electric bill actually dropped after I had my first Tesla because the cost of charging my car was more than offset by savings from switching other heavy electricity uses to off peak and partial peak.

Yeah, because you live in NorCal where AC is optional.
Think outside the NorCal box to get the bigger picture of why TOU doesn't make financial sense whenever AC use drives electricity consumption patterns.

You are right that TOU *can* save money if people respond to the price signals but summer and a desire to run A/C in a large swath of the country at high peak rates should not be ignored in the cost analysis. [...] I am completely in favor of TOU since it sends the correct price signal to consumers to use cheap clean energy when available and to switch to EVs. I was only pointing out that the above article was an incomplete reckoning of costs (and savings.)

Exactly the problem.
I am all in favor of TOU rates, and wanted to switch to them. In the not-so-hot NJ area, this should have been possible. Alas, the current TOU rate structure (2x during the day, 1/2 at night) is cost prohibitive.

Unfortunately, the vast majority (71%) of TOU plans today are structured around 2‐to‐1 price ratio.
Which is why where TOU plans are available, the take rate is only ~3%:
http://files.brattle.com/files/1265...sidential_tou_rates_a_preliminary_summary.pdf

As usually in life, the devil is in the details!

a

 

[SageBrush]

And we're at $3.09/gal and $0.20/kwh in our part of NJ. These calculations are really situational.

Well said.

The ~$400 in savings over electricity

If I figure you are saving 5 cents a mile then $400 savings annually is 8000 miles driven a year. That also is a ymmv (your miles may vary.)

 

[Kilotango74]

On the one hand, electricity is 0.15/Kwh here, on the other, regular gas is $3.46/gal. The tilts is a bit away from the Tesla. The gripping hand - gas has been as low as $2.35/gal. in the last year, but electricity climbs steadily. It's up from 0.12/Kwh in the last five years and will just go higher as the PGE pumps more money into renewables. The current surcharge for 100% renewable electricity is $5 per 1Kw "block". I have no idea what that means exactly, except more.

But, if the Model 3 was a compact hatchback and wasn't so dependent on its screen, we'd probably have purchased one.

So if the Model 3 wasn't a Model 3 you would buy one.....got it.