Cold Weather Pre-conditioning not working?

[CraDavis]

We've had a couple sub-zero days here in MN.I usually start preconditioning 15-20 min before I head out. Normally I start it and after a minute or so there is a little battery icon that pops up in the app to tell me its preconditioning. When I get to the car my brake regen is limited, but is not zero. Recently I do not see the icon at all in the app and when I get to the car the regen is completely 0 for the first 3-5 miles of driving. Its plenty cold outside, car is in a unattached, unheated garage. Stays only about 10-15 degrees F warmer than outside....so this week that should be near 0 degrees F. I would definitely expect preconditioning to be happening at these temps.

Anyone else noticing this?

 

[ChelseaMTBKR]

I have had the same issue now since 2019.36.x. It might seem that moving to Scheduled Departure might help but it doesn't, and here is why...

Home temperature was -15°C when I got up today - Snowflake next to the battery on the app. I began preheating the cabin at 06:00. Cabin was nice and worm at 07:00 but no battery preconditioning occurred - it used to work last year.

I have Scan-my-tesla app and can see that 'Coolant Heater' does not activate until I put the car in drive so this morning my battery was sitting at -12°C, 0-regen. Then, after 42 mins of driving still 5 - 6 bars of regen limit, consumption was 334 wh/km.

If Tesla is listening - I have been trying to understand the different aspects of the current software functionality:

Several comments and observation:
Battery pre-heat/conditioning (Coolant heater) only now starts after you engage the car in Drive!
Coolant heater should come on with any activation of cabin pre-heat if battery is below +12°C. Should be a manual function in the app actually.
Cut-off temperature for Coolant Heater should increase from +12°C (which is where scan-my-tesla shows it kicks OFF now) to 17° - 20°C especially on shore power first thing in the morning. This will give nearly full regen when driving starts. Kicking out too early on cold days means battery pre-heater pretty much will remain ON during entire trip to/from work (40 - 45 mins).
No Regen and all battery pre-contioning after driving commences means I burn way too much energy/km.
Scheduled Departure seems not to pre-condition the battery at all if you manually activate the cabin pre-heater before scheduled departure begins to its thing.

Impact on me/my family:
No impact on work days - tons of range
Burning too much energy/km in my S75D means that since the first leg of my family holiday trip to NJ requires me to reach (the only option) the closest Supercharger that is 240 kms from home and at > 270 Wh/km I cannot reach the charger especially if we encounter any kind of in-climate weather like heavy snow or freezing rain coming off the eastern end of Lake Ontario. Therefore, with this morning's energy usage as an example, I wouldn't even make it much past the border heading south.
b/c of lack of battery pre-conditioning, I have actually canceled my trip to NJ this holiday season. Note: we have done this trip before in cold weather and bad conditions and roll into that Supercharger at ~20 to 30 kms (tight but not too bad) left on the clock. Wont attempt without battery pre-heat from home/cold start of my first leg as it is now.

Solution:
Battery preconditioning needs to come back to be part of cabin pre-conditioning - please.
Manual activation of battery pre-conditioner should be built into the app, perhaps even with option to pick +12, +16, or +20°C as the coolant heater cutoff temperature. It should in no way be coupled with Scheduled Departure.

... did I mention Please bring back the battery pre-heater asap?

 

[aesculus]

If Tesla is listening - I have been trying to understand the different aspects of the current software functionality:

log onto your Tesla account and share this via comment/email. I doubt they see too many of these posts and your info is good.

 

[beatle]

If scheduled departure works as designed, the battery will warm "naturally" as part of its charging duties, using the battery heater as necessary. The car should estimate how long it will take to charge so that it stops charging shortly before you want to leave. That said, people's experiences with scheduled departure are spotty. It worked for me last week but not this morning.

 

[drklain]

Scheduled departure does not work that way. Scheduled departure is set to charge the car such that the charge is complete before 6 am. If your scheduled departure is AFTER 6 am, it will still start charging at whatever time necessary to be done by 6. Now supposedly it will do preconditioning later to have the battery warmed up when you are ready to leave (whatever time that it) but it definitely is hard-coded to finish charging by 6 am. A really lousy implementation in my opinion...

 

[TJtv]

If Tesla is listening -

They're not....

 

[ChelseaMTBKR]

I will log-in and send an email - probably compose more details using screen shots and edits

'been trying to get Scheduled Departure to work for me and, ... it just doesn't. And without any way to manually pre-heat the battery there is little we can do to have decent regen below +10°C.

 

[A-Wimoweh]

I wonder if this is done intentionally as a way to get more usage out of the brakes in colder climates, so they don't seize up in colder climates where it snows and the roads are salted?

 

[LukasSwan]

I'm in Canada. Noticed this as well.
I really like the little battery symbol and having Regen on cold days. Wish they would re implement this. Now Regen barely turns on by the time I get to work.

ALSO. WHY ON EARTH don't they turn on rear heater and mirror defrost when I click for max defrost in the app. Right now my windshield is clean, but I cannot see out the back window!

 

[CraDavis]

Ahh thank you! This sat dormant for a few days and I was starting to think I was the only one. I am glad you narrowed it down to the firmware rev. I was trying to figure out if it was firmware, app version or both.

Its actually more frustrating for me when I leave work. I normally preheat the car before I leave and its always nice to have some regen when I get there. Having it be flat out 0 for the duration of my commute has been annoying. My regen has been basically non-functional all winter.

On it being related to brakes in winter climates....I would say unlikely. When it worked it never brought regen to 100%, probably somewhere around 50% if I remember right. So even then the brakes were getting some use. And if you use autopilot, at least in my experience ...winter or summer, the brakes always get some use whether needed or not

 

[ChooseGreen]

Here I was thinking this was just me! Our home charging is currently out of order so we haven’t been plugged in when pre-conditioning so I thought it was that. Very curious to see how this evolves as I will be showing some family the car for the first time over the holidays and I would love to showcase regen. I don’t want to have to drive 30km just to do that.

 

[CraDavis]

An interesting thing I noticed today. After driving the first few miles when I left this morning (regen at 0) I checked the app and the snowflake icon appears telling me the battery heating is on. This was with a -8F morning and preheating started nearly an hour before I left. So ChelseaMTBKR assertion that it only flips on after shifting into drive seems accurate.

 

[KalJoMoS]

I will be showing some family the car for the first time over the holidays and I would love to showcase regen. I don’t want to have to drive 30km just to do that.

Just charge it before you need to take the trip, regenerative braking will be/is there even if cold.

 

[ChooseGreen]

A few observations I have had on my 2014 S60 (2019.40.2.1) below. My notes are observational and by looking at the battery heater icon on the app so take with a grain of salt.

• Level 1 charging at -10 deg C: the battery heater would come on for a few minutes leaving little power for actual charging. Once the battery heater turned off, the estimated charge duration came back down to normal.
• Pre-heating the car, the battery heater did not come on.
• Once the car was in drive, the battery heater turned on.
• When the car was put into park, the battery heater turned off.

 

[ChooseGreen]

Just charge it before you need to take the trip, regenerative braking will be/is there even if cold.

True. You’re right. However this will be more of a situation along the lines of the car sitting all night not charging (not easily available), then me taking relatives out in it after breakfast.

 

[ChooseGreen]

A few observations I have had on my 2014 S60 (2019.40.2.1) below. My notes are observational and by looking at the battery heater icon on the app so take with a grain of salt.

• Level 1 charging at -10 deg C: the battery heater would come on for a few minutes leaving little power for actual charging. Once the battery heater turned off, the estimated charge duration came back down to normal.
• Pre-heating the car, the battery heater did not come on.
• Once the car was in drive, the battery heater turned on.
• When the car was put into park, the battery heater turned off.

Scratch that. It is about -20 C outside right now. The car was at an internal temperature of -3 C and is plugged in to 110V. I turned on the preheat and the battery heater came on for a minute or two. Got a bit of regen once I put it in drive which was better than the zero regen I was getting.

 

[Skipdd]

Having the same issue and very unpleasant. On business trip in NJ all week. Hotel has no charging capability, so having daily drain of 10 mi or so of range. (There is a garage at least so it’s a little warmer than outside (45 vs 25). Tried to pre-condition car before going to Supercharger and could not!! So time to charge is a lot longer. Frustrating. I am going to submit a service request when I return.

 

[ChooseGreen]

Frustrating. I am going to submit a service request when I return.

That is frustrating. Let us know what comes of the service request!

 

[wodnik7]

Same to me in NM. I have still 2019.36.2.3 - battery heating works only when in D, in P or through app it does not.

Regen mode is off!

 

[ChelseaMTBKR]

-22°C this morning, used Scheduled departure and it completed its work about 45 minutes before scheduled departure time.

Battery heater comes on for charging and raises the temperature of the battery but only to +12°C. But I argue +12°C is way not enough:

Scheduled Departure charging seems to do ok for what it is intended to do; charge before leaving, but shutting down 45 minutes before departure is not so good at today's temperature. Cabin pre-heat did not come on (at all) as part of scheduled departure - turned on manually 15 mins before departure; -22°C and 15 mins of cabin pre-heat leaves things still pretty chili inside.

51 minute ride to work today the battery was sitting at 11.7°C (scan-my-tesla app) in parking lot arriving at work, ... this means that there is no net-heating of the battery if the cut-OFF of the heater is +12°C while in drive at these temperatures - the loss of heat exceeds the heating from any marginal re-gen that the +12°C cut-off gave back to us colder climate folks. Which is why I suggest we need to have higher or settable battery heater cut-off temperature (pls see my first post). Energy consumed today was 330 Wh/km.

Considering that there is no net heating when outdoor ambient temperature is -22°C and that I consumed 330 Wh/km, ... calculating that if I were to need to arrive at Watertown NY superCharger after 240 kms of driving - that would not happen, I wouldnt arrive there. Side Note: We drove back from Watertown to home on 28th December 2017 and the outdoor ambient outdoor air temperature was a solid -30°C (a full 50°C colder than the cabin temperature - think about that for a second) and we rolled into the driveway with 11 kms on the clock - Why this is important: I fully supercharged at Watertown to ~392 kms of range, ... the battery was certainly hot after supercharging, the cabin was certainly preheated since we left cabin preheat on, ... my point is that without proper preheating of the battery to near 17 - 20°C pre-first leg, with no net heat gain at -22°C as in today's example, then there is no way to reach a distant (and only) SC enroute.

The other issue I have with Scheduled Departure (lets call it just-in-time charging instead) is that there is no way I am going to leave the security of electricity supply up to chance - I get home, I like to charge, I know its charging and I hear the clunk of the home charge kick-out when its done. Blindly expecting power to ON between 02:00 and 07:00 overnight is not always a given so if I expect a charge and dont get it I am stuck the next day - also (and rarely) my charger bugs and needs to have its reset button pushed, also rarely the charging connector in the charging port gives a orange instead of a green connection and the charging rate is 1/3 of the normal rate. I want to know its charging.

Going home this evening, I know the car is stone cold, its still -21°C outside and no amount of cabin preheat will bring the battery up after sitting all day today in the PL - perhaps when I sign up for robo taxis my car will stay warm when its out all day (haha).

Now there is another case that the 'just plug and schedule' folks didn't consider: What about saturday/sundays when I don't go anywhere at 07:00, what about the day when you are home, charging completed at 06:15, its damn cold out and you didn't move your car? But now you want to make a trip and get some groceries - we used to be able to preheat the cabin and pre-heat the battery and make a trip to the store or out for supper. Now with no battery pre-heat that is painful.