Comparision of an 85D to a P85D

[breser]

Looking forward to the trip efficiency comparison with the S85 (if you're still doing it).

I think we'll do it but it might not happen this weekend. Given the current plane we're waiting for Tesla to open the Cor d'Alene, ID supercharger. But even if it's open schedules may not work out. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[techmaven]

I would love to see measured 0-60 and 50-70 time comparisons between the two.

 

[toto_48313]

Overall Thoughts

This is obviously my opinion but I'm glad I got what I did. The P85D launches sure make for an entertaining situation with other people in the car. In my case I don't have many different people in my car and would quickly become a very rare occasion. Unless you want to drag race with high end cars, I just don't see the point. Certainly not for the $20k more I would have spent for a P85D. I got back in my 85D and was still having plenty of fun with the acceleration it had. Shockingly driving the P85D didn't ruin it for me. I walked into this experience expecting to be blown away and figuring I'd wish I'd bought the P85D, but I wasn't. The things that really matter for a day to day driver the 85D has. It has enough acceleration to out run 99% of what's out there on the road. It has great handling and sticks to the road just as well.

If you really want the P85D and don't mind the extra cost in price or the decreased range then by all means buy one. If you're on the fence, care about your range, don't need to wow lots of passengers and aren't going to be racing every Ferrari and Lamborghini you can find then I would pass on the P85D and just get the 85D. With the next gen seats now available to order in an 85D the only reason to order a P85D is if you want the acceleration, spoiler or painted brakes calipers.

I agree on most of your analysis, however, I got a 85 as a loaner last week end, and I can say that the handling is a major improvement with the D in cold and snow.

 

[breser]

I agree on most of your analysis, however, I got a 85 as a loaner last week end, and I can say that the handling is a major improvement with the D in cold and snow.

Not sure that i follow. Did you have an 85D loaner or just an 85? I'd be surprised if they have 85D loaners just yet, but it's not impossible they have 85D demonstrators. If it's just an 85 without AWD then I obviously would agree that AWD would be an improvement. I didn't get either car into snow (winter is over here around Seattle) and 40-50℉ doesn't really count as cold. I'd be really surprised if an P85D was significantly better in cold/snow than an 85D.

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I would love to see measured 0-60 and 50-70 time comparisons between the two.

I took some video of the speedometer while doing 0-60 launches in sport and insane mode on the P85D. Hopefully I can get some time to do something similar in my 85D and try to edit them side by side so you can see the differences. I won't have 50-70 since I didn't go that fast in the videos.

 

[ArtInCT]

Hey Breser!
Really nice review amigo. Like your first impression review of the S85D, this comparo' was again well written and as I was reading it, my mind was asking a few questions... and then... guess what... in the next sentence you answered the thought.... just wonderful. Great Job, I cannot give you more Reputation points...

The time break differences is the only thing you did not answer... but that is just technical. I will have to test drive an S85D and a P85D closer to my order date....

I will also have to test out the different seats. Thanks for that area of the review. Well Done.

As you know, I am leaning towards the P85D or whatever it will be called when I order (in November of this year).

Again Thanks and good luck with the S85D.
Art

 

[Sparrow]

Wouldn't the 21" wheels on the P85D verses your 19" wheels on your car account for some of the wh/mi difference you are noting?

 

[breser]

Wouldn't the 21" wheels on the P85D verses your 19" wheels on your car account for some of the wh/mi difference you are noting?

Yes it would account for some of the difference. About 50-100 Wh/mile is 12-25% more energy usage. 21" wheels are supposedly only 5% (253 is 5% more than 240). Now I'll admit I was eyeballing it and not carefully watching numbers. Combined MPGe for the P85D is 93 and for the 85D is 100. Which represents a 7% difference. 7+5% = 12%. Pretty surprised that it came out that cleanly.

I'm assuming 400 Wh/mile for the 85D and was seeing 450-500 Wh/mile for the P85D, my average in the 85D so far is about 380 Wh/mile but the routes I was taking happened to be slightly more expensive due to the elevation changes.

 

[Cottonwood]

Even though I ended up with the P85D, I still think the S85D is the sweet spot in Tesla's current lineup. For me it was a combination of earlier delivery, 'you only live once' and Next Gen seats (which I still don't have, btw) that tipped me in favor of the P.

From my experience, I'd say that the P85D achieved near parity with the original S85/P85 (in terms of range) with the rollout of .139/.140 firmware; at least that was true for me when driven conservatively. We all know .167 had Range mode issues and I believe .179 is a step backward in terms of efficiency, somewhere between the poor efficiency under the earliest firmware version delivered with the cars in December 2014 and the quite good efficiency of .139.

I agree with most of what Stevezzzz says, except on efficiency comparison between .140 and .179. Although conditions made exact measurements hard to compare, I got noticeably better efficiency on .179 than .140 on my 240 mile, 1,800 foot climb, 3 mountain pass, Pagosa Springs to Silverthorne, single-charge run in my P85D. See P85D Lost power on road, - Page 26 and the next couple of messages for details.

I am very happy with my P85D. Insane launches are just that, insane. It is hard to justify the price of a P85D for just that, but a little insanity in your life can be nice sometimes... :biggrin:

 

[stevezzzz]

I really hope you're right, Cottonwood. I have only limited experience with .179 and no open-road legs at all, so your gut feeling trumps mine. The tailwind you reported is a bit of a spanner in the works, though.

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With or without range mode? From what I've seen a lot of P85D folks are driving around in range mode when I've only ever used range mode once on my S85 when I was taking a trip that pushed the limits on my range. Haven't even bothered with it on my 85D. Comparing a P85D in range mode to an S85/P85 without range mode doesn't really equal parity to me. Though I'm still fuzzy on what the negatives of range mode really are. I assume there must be some or there wouldn't be a reason to activate it.

Range mode in the S85/P85 makes very little difference to efficiency except in the case where you are driving a cold-soaked car in frigid conditions, where limiting power to the climate control system and reduced pack heating loads do indeed provide substantial efficiency gains. OTOH, Range mode in the P85D makes an obvious and significant difference even in mild weather, when pack heating isn't needed and climate control loads are low. That's because in addition to climate control and battery heating limitations, in the D cars Range mode implements a more aggressive form of torque sleep (we know it's a factor because of the problems people had under .167 with Range mode On).

I know this photo doesn't really prove anything, but the kinks in the SOC plot at about the quarter point came about when I turned Range mode Off and then a little later back on again, in the middle of a drive last week when I was experimenting with .167; I did it again very near the end.

 

[Bobbydazzler]

I would love to see measured 0-60 and 50-70 time comparisons between the two.

To add another one... 30-70 is what I'd like to see please