Conflicted feelings on the new Roadster

[Peteski]

Cost aside there should be no concern of it's too much of a car.

I like how you casually dismiss $200K just like that! It's actually pretty good value IF you are looking for hypercar performance, but not so good if you don't want or need that sort of performance and really just want a modest open top Roadster. A Roadster based on the Model 3 platform would be a more realistic proposition for many people, especially those looking for a direct replacement for their original Roadster rather than an alternative to an ICE hypercar from the likes of Ferrari, Lambo etc. The two Tesla Roadsters are going to be a million miles apart on the road, both in performance and weight.

 

[CarlK]

I like how you casually dismiss $200K just like that! It's actually pretty good value IF you are looking for hypercar performance, but not so good if you don't want or need that sort of performance and really just want a modest open top Roadster. A Roadster based on the Model 3 platform would be a more realistic proposition for many people, especially those looking for a direct replacement for their original Roadster rather than an alternative to an ICE hypercar from the likes of Ferrari, Lambo etc. The two Tesla Roadsters are going to be a million miles apart on the road, both in performance and weight.

Can you read? Cost aside means cost IS a concern (for some) but the rest should not be.

Like I said the performance 3 will beat the original Roadster in pretty much every measurable way. You'd still have enough money left to turn the hard top into a convertible if that's what you want.

If you want Tesla to make a 2020 Roadster that is similar to the one made more than a decade ago this is not how Tesla does things. Go buy a Porsche if that's the way you like it.

 

[Peteski]

Can you read? Cost aside means cost IS a concern (for some) but the rest should not be.

Like I said the performance 3 will beat the original Roadster in pretty much every measurable way. You'd still have enough money left to turn the hard top into a convertible if that's what you want.

If you want Tesla to make a 2020 Roadster that is similar to the one made more than a decade ago this is not how Tesla does things. Go buy a Porsche if that's the way you like it.

There's no need to get all prickly about it. Cost is THE most important factor for 99.99% of people which is why we are not all driving around in $200K cars.

As for the rest, the key problem with the new Roadster is that it's a heavyweight hypercar that may not actually be all that great to drive on public roads, especially if it weighs 2000+ kg. What I want is a $100K Roadster that weighs closer to the 1235 kg of the original Roadster, incorporating all the tech advances Tesla have gained over the last decade. In other words something more fun to drive on a European mountain tour for example.

As you mention Porsche, basically an EV Cayman would be the sort of car I'd really want Tesla to make. 0-60 in 2.whatever seconds, 155 mph top end and a 400 mile range would do nicely. I'm sure they could knock that out for $100K too, which would sell in much larger volumes than a $200K halo car.

 

[CarlK]

There's no need to get all prickly about it. Cost is THE most important factor for 99.99% of people which is why we are not all driving around in $200K cars.

As for the rest, the key problem with the new Roadster is that it's a heavyweight hypercar that may not actually be all that great to drive on public roads, especially if it weighs 2000+ kg. What I want is a $100K Roadster that weighs closer to the 1235 kg of the original Roadster, incorporating all the tech advances Tesla have gained over the last decade. In other words something more fun to drive on a European mountain tour for example.

As you mention Porsche, basically an EV Cayman would be the sort of car I'd really want Tesla to make. 0-60 in 2.whatever seconds, 155 mph top end and a 400 mile range would do nicely. I'm sure they could knock that out for $100K too, which would sell in much larger volumes than a $200K halo car.

But what price you think is appropriate? If you think something like the original Roadster remember the car cost $150K+ in today's dollars. Tesla is making the new Roadster a halo car to show the world an EV can do everything any ICE could do and more. If it's for the reason of selling a lot of cars than Tesla should not even be making two seaters or 2+2. If you really want an electric Cayman, the car I have owned and considered one of the best sports cars on the planet, then you should just go buy the performance Model 3 which sits more people and I'm certain will drive MUCH better than the Cayman.

 

[Peteski]

But what price you think is appropriate? If you think something like the original Roadster remember the car cost $150K+ in today's dollars. Tesla is making the new Roadster a halo car to show the world an EV can do everything any ICE could do and more. If it's for the reason of selling a lot of cars than Tesla should not even be making two seaters or 2+2. If you really want an electric Cayman, the car I have owned and considered one of the best sports cars on the planet, then you should just go buy the performance Model 3 which sits more people and I'm certain will drive MUCH better than the Cayman.

I'm answering in the context of this thread and feel much the same way as the OP. Now IF I wanted a halo hypercar then I think the new Roadster is probably a bargain at $200K. But what I think I'd prefer to actually drive is a Roadster based on the Model 3 platform, which I agree would effectively be like an EV Cayman. Actually I don't really care about it being an open top Roadster. So the Model 3 Performance as it is will probably be on our shortlist as a second car. If it really does match or exceed Porsche Cayman handling then that will be amazing! I'm realistically expecting it will fall slightly short on handling, but have a much better powertrain and more practical cabin. But that's a great compromise anyway. I'm sure it will kick the BMW M3 into touch as a more direct competitor.

 

[CarlK]

This is a halo supercar with the purpose Elon has very clearly stated many times. Tesla will NOT make that low volume electric Cayman for a few. At least not until after, if ever, the model Y, pickups, subcompacts and what have you to address those bigger markets. I'd suggest you just get the performance 3 and be happy. It will drive better than the Cayman for sure.

 

[Peteski]

This is a halo supercar with the purpose Elon has very clearly stated many times. Tesla will NOT make that low volume electric Cayman for a few. At least not until after, if ever, the model Y, pickups, subcompacts and what have you to address those bigger markets. I'd suggest you just get the performance 3 and be happy. It will drive better than the Cayman for sure.

On our local roads I’d put good money on the M3 Performance driving better than the new Roadster too! Until then the Cayman is my handling benchmark for local driving roads. Supercars are cool, but often too big and fast to really enjoy driving on anything other than wide tracks. I’m actually quite tempted to invest in an original Tesla Roadster if I can find one at the right price, but might have missed that boat!

 

[CarlK]

On our local roads I’d put good money on the M3 Performance driving better than the new Roadster too! Until then the Cayman is my handling benchmark for local driving roads. Supercars are cool, but often too big and fast to really enjoy driving on anything other than wide tracks. I’m actually quite tempted to invest in an original Tesla Roadster if I can find one at the right price, but might have missed that boat!

Not sure if you own a Tesla yet or not. The beauty of Tesla, or electric vehicles in general, is no matter how fast and powerful they are they are equally pleasant to drive slowly as they are to drive fast and aggressively. That's basically why I said in my original post that it will not be too much of a car if cost is not the object. Few would want to drive a Bugatti or Ferrari in daily commuting traffic but there will be no such issue for the new Roadster.

 

[Peteski]

Not sure if you own a Tesla yet or not. The beauty of Tesla, or electric vehicles in general, is no matter how fast and powerful they are they are equally pleasant to drive slowly as they are to drive fast and aggressively. That's basically why I said in my original post that it will not be too much of a car if cost is not the object. Few would want to drive a Bugatti or Ferrari in daily commuting traffic but there will be no such issue for the new Roadster.

Yeah, we have a Model X as a family car. I know what you mean about being easy to drive as an everyday car, but can the new Roadster be fun to drive on your favourite winding backroads? I'd say it's massive overkill as most supercars are. Still if I had $200K spare I'd probably give it a go, but I'm far from convinced by the concept of a 250 mph, 200 kWh beast like this!

 

[felixtb]

There was a mention of the price of the original roadster as 150000 in today’s dollars. I can say as an original owner in Europe with not a lot of options my car was around 180000 new....... so for the 20000 more you are getting much more car than with the original roasdster. Also the original roadster has really bad breaks unless you change them and the weight distribution and center of gravity is not ideal either, so driving the twisty back roads in the mountains in Europe is really not as ideal as a lotus based car should be........... not bad but not great....... still love the car though for all its other traites.

 

[12Pack]

Probably will get flamed for this. Roadster owners here are saying exactly what ICE performance car owners are saying of all EVs including the roadster - they lack soul and engagement. No sound, no manual gearshift, no burnt rubber, no throttle on oversteer.

Full disclosure - MS daily driver with old school ICE fun car and 2020 roadster deposit.

 

[Peteski]

There was a mention of the price of the original roadster as 150000 in today’s dollars. I can say as an original owner in Europe with not a lot of options my car was around 180000 new....... so for the 20000 more you are getting much more car than with the original roasdster. Also the original roadster has really bad breaks unless you change them and the weight distribution and center of gravity is not ideal either, so driving the twisty back roads in the mountains in Europe is really not as ideal as a lotus based car should be........... not bad but not great....... still love the car though for all its other traites.

There is no shadow of a doubt that the original Roadster was extremely expensive and you had to be a serious EV fan with deep pockets to choose one over any similarly priced ICE supercar of the time. The 2020 Roadster is actually a bargain compared to ICE equivalents, but not necessarily a better drive. My worry, as I’ve stated many times, is the sheer weight of the thing with a 200 kWh battery just to prove a point with straight line performance and range. If there was a 100 kWh version on offer I’d put a deposit down today. It would be around 400 kg lighter which is a huge deal in real world driving.

 

[tonybelding]

Yeah, I agree the weight is a concern. Maybe the torque vectoring can overcome that to some extent, but it remains to be demonstrated. That raises another thought… Is there anything to prevent Tesla from building a new-gen Roadster in a lightweight edition with a 100 KWh battery pack?

Model 3 Performance is an interesting thought that I hadn't considered, but a four-door hard top won't provide the environmental engagement that comes so easily to the Roadster.

Other companies will eventually move into the electric sports car space, but I am impatient. I've been looking at the new Mazda MX-5 RF, and it looks fantastic. I could snag one of those and bolt on a supercharger and still be way below the budget of anything else we've discussed. But then I'd be burning gas again.

 

[Peteski]

Yeah, I agree the weight is a concern. Maybe the torque vectoring can overcome that to some extent, but it remains to be demonstrated. That raises another thought… Is there anything to prevent Tesla from building a new-gen Roadster in a lightweight edition with a 100 KWh battery pack?

Model 3 Performance is an interesting thought that I hadn't considered, but a four-door hard top won't provide the environmental engagement that comes so easily to the Roadster.

Other companies will eventually move into the electric sports car space, but I am impatient. I've been looking at the new Mazda MX-5 RF, and it looks fantastic. I could snag one of those and bolt on a supercharger and still be way below the budget of anything else we've discussed. But then I'd be burning gas again.

They could easily fit a smaller battery, but whether or not they will offer that option remains to be seen.

I would love to see a Roadster based on the Model 3 platform too, but probably not very likely given their workload.

As for torque vectoring, it didn’t help the NIO beat the McLaren P1 around the Ring and the Roadster will be considerably heavier than either of those supercars with its much bigger battery.

 

[felixtb]

Since we have no idea what their battery chemistry will be, we should probably wait and see about the overall weight. Considering the German tare-down of the model 3s divulged a much lower use of cobalt in the M3s batterypack than was previously thought possible. Tesla might well have a much more energy dense chemistry already being tested and in store for the roadster and use it as a first run in a production vehicle.......

 

[Peteski]

Since we have no idea what their battery chemistry will be, we should probably wait and see about the overall weight. Considering the German tare-down of the model 3s divulged a much lower use of cobalt in the M3s batterypack than was previously thought possible. Tesla might well have a much more energy dense chemistry already being tested and in store for the roadster and use it as a first run in a production vehicle.......

Whatever chemistry they use, there is still scope to make the car hundreds of kilos lighter with a 300 mile range. 2020 is only 2 years away too, so any improvement is likely to be modest.

 

[bobinfla]

Whatever chemistry they use, there is still scope to make the car hundreds of kilos lighter with a 300 mile range. 2020 is only 2 years away too, so any improvement is likely to be modest.

Unfortunately, in Tesla time, 2020 is actually 4 years away, so lots of time for improvements.

 

[tonybelding]

They could easily fit a smaller battery, but whether or not they will offer that option remains to be seen.

It's an interesting thought experiment to imagine a "superleggera" version with maybe half the battery capacity, lighter weight, lower cost. Obviously it would be a compromise, but I wonder just how the numbers would work out on that?

I would love to see a Roadster based on the Model 3 platform too, but probably not very likely given their workload.

A two-door Model 3 variant could be interesting. I am old enough to remember when big car companies made two-door cars, effectively, to complement the regular four-door version of the same model. For example, a Ford Torino you could get as 4-door sedan, 2-door hardtop, GT convertible, or even as a wagon. (Some of them had real power and were effectively muscle cars, too.) That kind of platform engineering you don't see as much these days. Maybe it'll become easier on the EV "skateboard" design?

The marketing hurdle would be that all anybody seems to want these days is either a pickup truck or a station wagon crossover SUV. Why bother to produce different body styles if you can sell all the crossovers that you can make?

As for torque vectoring, it didn’t help the NIO beat the McLaren P1 around the Ring and the Roadster will be considerably heavier than either of those supercars with its much bigger battery.

I think there are some legitimate doubts about the new Roadster's track performance and handling (i.e. cornering) performance. I'm not sure if it really matters. If Tesla have managed to create the world's most ultimate Pony Car, many people will be happy with it.

 

[Peteski]

A two-door Model 3 variant could be interesting. I am old enough to remember when big car companies made two-door cars, effectively, to complement the regular four-door version of the same model.

BMW 3-series coupe and 4 series spring to mind as modern day examples. Audi coupes too based on A4 platform etc. Pretty popular stuff among young upwardly mobile execs without kids in tow!

 

[Brando]

4 doors are stronger and therefore safer.
2 door just a "marketing ploy" to increase profits. (a design fad?)
[does leave a market niche for others to fill, go for it GM] no kids in tow, get a 2 seater
Elon seems to see volume increases his preferred path to more profits, IMHO.