diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Toyota still plans to use radar and lidar for their robotaxis and autonomous vehicle projects:
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Wiki Consumer AV - Status Tracking Thread
- Thread starter EVNow
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Toyota still plans to use radar and lidar for their robotaxis and autonomous vehicle projects:
Here is the important part you left out, though.
It said using a majority of data coming from low-cost cameras increased its system's performance to a level similar to when the system was trained exclusively on high-cost sensor data.
But, looks like they are still a few years behind Tesla and MobilEye.
"But in many, many years, it's entirely possible that camera type technology can catch up and overtake some of the more advanced sensors," he said.
"The question may be more about when and how long it will take to reach a level of safety and reliability. I don't believe we know that yet."
I think as companies get serious about autonomy in the consumer car space, they will come to the same conclusion Tesla did years ago. Just like in EVs. No surprise here. You can’t have Lidars and HD maps for high volume consumer cars that have continent size ODD rather than a few blocks of SF.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I don't think they are saying that they are behind Tesla/Mobileye. They are making a general statement that I have made many times here: nobody knows when vision-only will be good enough for true robotaxis:
The idea is that yes, you can train on vision-only and achieve performance "similar" to training on radar and lidar. But when your vision-only will be safe enough and reliably enough to actually do driverless robotaxis is a different question. It will happen someday but we don't know when.
Ofcourse they are not saying that - I’m sure the PR guys of the unit don’t want to lose their jobs !
Thats funny because nobody knows when LiDAR cars can be good enough for robotaxis either (outside a few millionth of a % of entire world).
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Yes we do know that lidar is good enough for robotaxis. The fact that they work in geofenced areas means they will work in bigger geofenced areas. Waymo is already expanding their areas. There is no reason Waymo or others can't just keep adding more and more geofenced areas until most urban areas are covered. The only thing holding them back is making sure the system is safe enough to handle edge cases. Lidar is not what is holding them back.
No. We just know LiDAR + HD maps work in tiny geohacked areas where traffic conditions are very simple. Full stop.
Rest is pure speculation.
NoA Like:
Li-Xiang ONE 2021+, High Way and On/Off Ramp, Horizon Journey 5 chip, Now Available
AION V Plus, High Way and on/off ramp, From Baidu and Bochs, Now Avaliable
Xpeng P5, Just like P7
FSD Like:
ArcFox Alpha Huawei Inside Edition. Point to Point. Limit City with map (Shen Zhen, Shang Hai, Hangzhou), Huawei chip (400Tops). Can test drive but do not deliver to the user since the HarmonyOS head unit issue
Nio ET7/5 Point to Point, TBD
Li-Xiang ONE 2021+, High Way and On/Off Ramp, Horizon Journey 5 chip, Now Available
AION V Plus, High Way and on/off ramp, From Baidu and Bochs, Now Avaliable
Xpeng P5, Just like P7
FSD Like:
ArcFox Alpha Huawei Inside Edition. Point to Point. Limit City with map (Shen Zhen, Shang Hai, Hangzhou), Huawei chip (400Tops). Can test drive but do not deliver to the user since the HarmonyOS head unit issue
Nio ET7/5 Point to Point, TBD
Xpeng P5's City NGP (a.k.a Xpilot 3.5) can only be used on the major and sub-major roads in the city, while XPeng will release point to point XPilot 4.0 by it's flagship G9 in June. These stuff aim to available at end of this year
P7 and P5 got their Highway NGP (like but better NoA), the name is Xpilot 3.0
P5 equiped two lidar
Comma Ai will try to reach Point to point by the end of this year, they now use Qcom 845 instead of Qcom 820 in order to do something rather than L2.
They have just cracked Toyota and Hyundai to make a full left and right turn
Many Chinese companies try to reach a point to point, many of them do have their Lidar (Or have pre-set port to install it, such as ZhiJi L7). Top of the line P5 is around 80% price compared with a model 3 RWD, but with two Lidar, a projector for in-car cinema and a drone. (Unfortunately, only a few people bought the top version, because the price is close to the cheapest version P7)
Here is a simple list of the lidar-equipped cars in china. Most of them with a reasonable price (Equip or cheaper a Model Y RWD, YES, RWD is available in china for Model Y), most of them is aimed to L3 but I don't have time to discuss it one by one.
Model/ Lidar #/ Lidar Provider /Deliver date:
Nio ET5 / 1 / Innovusion/ Sept 2022
Nio ET7 / 1 / Innovusion / 28 Mar 2022
XPeng P5 / 2/ DJI Livox/ Oct 2021
XPeng G9 / 2/ 速腾聚创/ Q3 2022
Li Xiang X01(L9?)/ 1/ 禾赛/ Q3 2022
Ne Zha/ NeZha S/ 1/ Huawei/ Q3/4 2022
Aion LX Plus/ 3/ 速腾聚创/ Jan 2022
WEY Mocha / 3/ lbeo/ Nov 2021
ArcFox Alpha S Hi / 3/ HuaWei/ 2022
and Many Many Many.
Tesla do reach miracle FSD beta by pure vision, but most of the car manufacturers choose to use Lidar, and they nearly or already make it: with reasonable price and functional L3/4
P7 and P5 got their Highway NGP (like but better NoA), the name is Xpilot 3.0
P5 equiped two lidar
Comma Ai will try to reach Point to point by the end of this year, they now use Qcom 845 instead of Qcom 820 in order to do something rather than L2.
They have just cracked Toyota and Hyundai to make a full left and right turn
Many Chinese companies try to reach a point to point, many of them do have their Lidar (Or have pre-set port to install it, such as ZhiJi L7). Top of the line P5 is around 80% price compared with a model 3 RWD, but with two Lidar, a projector for in-car cinema and a drone. (Unfortunately, only a few people bought the top version, because the price is close to the cheapest version P7)
Here is a simple list of the lidar-equipped cars in china. Most of them with a reasonable price (Equip or cheaper a Model Y RWD, YES, RWD is available in china for Model Y), most of them is aimed to L3 but I don't have time to discuss it one by one.
Model/ Lidar #/ Lidar Provider /Deliver date:
Nio ET5 / 1 / Innovusion/ Sept 2022
Nio ET7 / 1 / Innovusion / 28 Mar 2022
XPeng P5 / 2/ DJI Livox/ Oct 2021
XPeng G9 / 2/ 速腾聚创/ Q3 2022
Li Xiang X01(L9?)/ 1/ 禾赛/ Q3 2022
Ne Zha/ NeZha S/ 1/ Huawei/ Q3/4 2022
Aion LX Plus/ 3/ 速腾聚创/ Jan 2022
WEY Mocha / 3/ lbeo/ Nov 2021
ArcFox Alpha S Hi / 3/ HuaWei/ 2022
and Many Many Many.
Tesla do reach miracle FSD beta by pure vision, but most of the car manufacturers choose to use Lidar, and they nearly or already make it: with reasonable price and functional L3/4
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
That is your opinion. That is not fact. In fact, it is false because we know 100% that Waymo is not "geohacked", and is now operating in multiple areas and can handle difficult traffic conditions.
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diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I checked City NGP from Xpeng .... that was supposed to be available this year. Well, not yet.
They do have some test drives on youtube by reviewers ... Looks decent, but I guess predetermined route close to the HQ. They do need HD maps, though. So, in terms of sensor suit closer to Waymo than Tesla.
They do have some test drives on youtube by reviewers ... Looks decent, but I guess predetermined route close to the HQ. They do need HD maps, though. So, in terms of sensor suit closer to Waymo than Tesla.
Both Xpeng (City NGP) and Huawei (NCA) systems were released few months ago.
Xpeng City NGP is available in Guangzhou.
Huawei NCA is available in Shenzhen and Shanghai
Xpeng City NGP will be available in Shenzhen aswell in Jan 2023
Xpeng XNGP (on Xpeng G9) that will work in most cities will be available in mid 2023.
The key is not to look at YouTube. But at china's youtube (billibilli).
Xpeng CNGP videos
城市NGP-哔哩哔哩_Bilibili
bilibili是国内知名的视频弹幕网站，这里有及时的动漫新番，活跃的ACG氛围，有创意的Up主。大家可以在这里找到许多欢乐。
search.bilibili.com
Huawei NCA videos
华为智能驾驶-哔哩哔哩_Bilibili
bilibili是国内知名的视频弹幕网站，这里有及时的动漫新番，活跃的ACG氛围，有创意的Up主。大家可以在这里找到许多欢乐。
search.bilibili.com
Zeekr/Mobileye has actually been experiencing alot of delays. Initially the entire supervision system (end to end highway and city) was supposed to be out in Q4 2022 with OTA version 4.0 software. But it was delayed and then only the end to end highway was set for Jan 15 (and is currently being tested by private beta testers under NDA), but then it has now been delayed again to an unknown date. OTA 4.0 has released without it.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
That's disappointing to hear. I wonder if the reason for the delay is on the Mobileye side or Zeekr side? China is seeing a big spike in covid cases and deaths. That could have contributed to the delays.
Covid lockdowns have definitely affected things. But this is mostly on Mobileye.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Thanks. So what do you think is going on with Mobileye that is causing the delays?
This one says Xpeng will not rely on HP maps anymore .... atleast thats the title. No English CC available ...
"Xpeng City's NGP test exposure will no longer rely on high-definition maps"
小鹏城市NGP测试曝光，将不再依赖高精地图_哔哩哔哩_bilibili
小鹏城市NGP测试曝光，将不再依赖高精地图#新能源汽车 #小鹏汽车 #城市NGP #小鹏G9, 视频播放量 250、弹幕量 0、点赞数 4、投硬币枚数 0、收藏人数 1、转发人数 0, 视频作者 姗姗来车, 作者简介 ，相关视频：小鹏800V超充平台，永远快人一步，G9内饰部分曝光，智能驾驶的领头羊，小鹏P5城市NGP，全球充电最快SUV，小鹏G9荣获海外年度最佳，小鹏G9养家糊口，小鹏子品牌mona？昨天晚上在广州小鹏汽车总部门口拍到的伪装轿车，挺好看的，品冠携手小鹏G9蹭儿子热度，警花小姐姐亲自指导，如何正确使用辅助驾驶，小鹏G9上市发布会即将开始，鹏友，让你9等了，小鹏城市NGP再度加强
www.bilibili.com
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