Cruise

[stopcrazypp]

Brad Tem was given access to the video from Cruise.

Pedestrian Flung In Front Of Cruise Robotaxi; Could Robocars Improve Things?

A woman crossed a crosswalk against the light, was struck by a regular car and thrown in front of the robotaxi. It's a no win situation, but could it be better?

www.forbes.com

From the article:
"The pedestrian was reportedly crossing in the opposite crosswalk from right to left, after the light had changed (and against a “don’t walk” sign, sometimes called “jaywalking”) and hit by the driver of a sedan in the left lane...
Indeed, the display of the Cruise perception system shows it detected her and would presumably had stopped if she was in the lane of travel of the robotaxi, but she moved into the left lane and was attempting to stand on the median strip when struck."

Brad seems to be saying that the pedestrian WAS in the crosswalk. Whether the pedestrian was crossing within a crosswalk a pretty critical point (as that determines if the "go around pedestrian" move Cruise does was a contributory factor). So even with the video released, there's still no consistency in even answering this question. From google maps, I don't see a medium strip in the crosswalk, but the maybe there was an new one added (google maps data is from Feb 2023) or perhaps he was referring to the yellow line (not an actual concrete island). Hopefully @bradtem can chime in when he has the chance?

In the article there's a lot of interesting ideas on how to handle the aftermath (pedestrian being run over the car and how to move the car), but generally if the impact was unavoidable and not the fault of the AV, then the AV doesn't take much, if any, blame.

 

[diplomat33]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712499933281173991

 

[diplomat33]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712518043765715171

 

[spacecoin]

Cruise doesn’t impress. This is scary:

Self-driving car glitches and drives towards sidewalk in San Francisco

A group of friends experienced a few minutes of havoc in one of San Francisco's driverless cars last week. The video seems to have been shot in the city's Financial District

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[enemji]

ABC Good Morning rides with Waymo and Cruise.

Video Self-driving taxis are hitting the road

ABC News' Becky Worley tries two different self-driving taxi services that are already in use in San Francisco.

abcnews.go.com

At 1:32 mark, we see Cruise poorly handle a man pushing a bin across an intersection. The Cruise almost hits the man, veering at the last second. Cruise apparently told the reporter that this was normal and the man was in no danger. That seems a very poor response. Almost hitting someone is not "no danger".

reaction times need to improve, that is if detection was already done ahead of time.

In my opinion, the vehicle needs to be monitoring the area where the vehicle intends to be at least 500ms ahead, and forecast the possible actions.

 

[diplomat33]

Cruise doesn’t impress. This is scary:

Self-driving car glitches and drives towards sidewalk in San Francisco

A group of friends experienced a few minutes of havoc in one of San Francisco's driverless cars last week. The video seems to have been shot in the city's Financial District

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yeah, that is horrible and super scary. That should never happen. I would never ride in a Cruise again if that happened to me.

 

[willow_hiller]

Yeah, that is horrible and super scary. That should never happen. I would never ride in a Cruise again if that happened to me.

Cruise needs to rethink their PR strategy. Their corporate response really doesn't match what the video shows; and it damages their reputation for anyone that watches the video:

The AV made a late decision to re-route and was not able to achieve the desired trajectory. The AV then came to a stop out of the flow of traffic and reached out to remote assistance.

The overall scenario was resolved quickly and the ride continued otherwise as planned.

I can't imagine why a "desired trajectory" would ever be that close to running over a curb, through some pedestrians, and into the side of a building.

 

[diplomat33]

Cruise needs to rethink their PR strategy. Their corporate response really doesn't match what the video shows; and it damages their reputation for anyone that watches the video.

Agreed. There is a big disconnect. I do think it is quite interesting that you can find lots of videos of happy Waymo riders. You can't really find many videos of happy Cruise riders. Also, note how the PR is focused on different things. Waymo PR is usually reposting riders talking about their great ride experience with Waymo. Cruise PR is either a safety report with stats or news about "scaling" to a new city (but usually just a few test cars or a very limited service at night only). Cruise PR seems to avoid talking about rider experiences.

 

[spacecoin]

Cruise needs to rethink their PR strategy.

Cruise also need to rethink their roll-out strategy. They clearly aren't ready, yet announcing new cities every other week.

 

[diplomat33]

I would add that Cruise PR has changed a lot in just the last couple of years. Cruise used to tout rider experiences in the early days. I remember when Cruise first launched driverless in SF, they would post a bunch of videos of riders who were all giddy about riding in a driverless car for the first time. The PR message seemed to be that driverless cars had arrived. But now, as the service as scaled, Cruise does not really tout rider experiences anymore. Instead, as I mentioned above, they focus on safety stats or scaling news. So basically, when they first started the service and did not have any incidents yet, they touted rider experiences. Now that they have a bunch of bad incidents, they can't tout rider experiences anymore so they have tried to shift to something else that can be positive.

 

[Bladerskb]

Cruise proving that Waymo is 3-4 years ahead.

 

[diplomat33]

Cruise will be testing the Origin in Japan next year and announced joint venture with Honda to bring self-driving tech to Japan in 2026:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1714828259739992287

 

[cwerdna]

California DMV suspends Cruise's self-driving car permits, effective immediately

The California Department of Motor Vehicles on Tuesday suspended Cruise's deployment and testing permits for its autonomous vehicles, effective immediately.

www.cnbc.com

"The DMV’s decision does not affect Cruise’s permit for testing with a safety driver, according to the department."

 

[flutas]

California DMV suspends Cruise's self-driving car permits, effective immediately

The California Department of Motor Vehicles on Tuesday suspended Cruise's deployment and testing permits for its autonomous vehicles, effective immediately.

www.cnbc.com

"The DMV’s decision does not affect Cruise’s permit for testing with a safety driver, according to the department."

CA DMV statement [1] has some more information:

Today’s suspensions are based on the following:

13 CCR §228.20 (b) (6) – Based upon the performance of the vehicles, the Department determines the manufacturer’s vehicles are not safe for the public’s operation.

13 CCR §228.20 (b) (3) – The manufacturer has misrepresented any information related to safety of the autonomous technology of its vehicles.

13 CCR §227.42 (b) (5) – Any act or omission of the manufacturer or one of its agents, employees, contractors, or designees which the department finds makes the conduct of autonomous vehicle testing on public roads by the manufacturer an unreasonable risk to the public.

13 CCR §227.42 (c) – The department shall immediately suspend or revoke the Manufacturer’s Testing Permit or a Manufacturer’s Testing Permit – Driverless Vehicles if a manufacturer is engaging in a practice in such a manner that immediate suspension is required for the safety of persons on a public road.

Shocking almost nobody, this comes back to safety. Additionally it sounds like based on (b)(3) above...CA believes Cruise has misrepresented information related to safety of their cars.

DMV Statement on Cruise LLC Suspension - California DMV

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEOctober 24, 2023 The California Department of Motor Vehicles today issued the following statement on the immediate suspension of Cruise LLC’s deployment and driverless testing permits: Public safety remains the California DMV’s top priority, and the department’s autonomous...

www.dmv.ca.gov

 

[diplomat33]

CA DMV statement [1] has some more information:

Today’s suspensions are based on the following:

13 CCR §228.20 (b) (6) – Based upon the performance of the vehicles, the Department determines the manufacturer’s vehicles are not safe for the public’s operation.

13 CCR §228.20 (b) (3) – The manufacturer has misrepresented any information related to safety of the autonomous technology of its vehicles.

13 CCR §227.42 (b) (5) – Any act or omission of the manufacturer or one of its agents, employees, contractors, or designees which the department finds makes the conduct of autonomous vehicle testing on public roads by the manufacturer an unreasonable risk to the public.

13 CCR §227.42 (c) – The department shall immediately suspend or revoke the Manufacturer’s Testing Permit or a Manufacturer’s Testing Permit – Driverless Vehicles if a manufacturer is engaging in a practice in such a manner that immediate suspension is required for the safety of persons on a public road.

Shocking almost nobody, this comes back to safety. Additionally it sounds like based on (b)(3) above...CA believes Cruise has misrepresented information related to safety of their cars.

DMV Statement on Cruise LLC Suspension - California DMV

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEOctober 24, 2023 The California Department of Motor Vehicles today issued the following statement on the immediate suspension of Cruise LLC’s deployment and driverless testing permits: Public safety remains the California DMV’s top priority, and the department’s autonomous...

www.dmv.ca.gov

I feel like the CA DMV decision is pretty damning for Cruise. The CA DMV is flat out saying that Cruise is not safe to be driverless yet and moreover, they lied about their safety to get their driverless permit.

 

[EVNow]

California DMV suspends Cruise's self-driving car permits, effective immediately

The California Department of Motor Vehicles on Tuesday suspended Cruise's deployment and testing permits for its autonomous vehicles, effective immediately.

www.cnbc.com

"The DMV’s decision does not affect Cruise’s permit for testing with a safety driver, according to the department."

Finally. Cruise is clearly not ready.

 

[diplomat33]

I wonder if Kyle Vogt will get fired over this.

 

[EVNow]

The worst part is people will put all robotaxis in the same bucket and slam companies like Waymo - which is clearly more capable and a lot more risk-averse (which is a different problem).

 

[flutas]

I feel like the CA DMV decision is pretty damning for Cruise. The CA DMV is flat out saying that Cruise is not safe to be driverless yet and moreover, they lied about their safety to get their driverless permit.

So to follow up, it sounds like the claim about (b)(3) could be due to the recent pedestrian accident. Highlights mine.

In the Order of Suspension, the California DMV said that the Cruise vehicle initially came to a hard stop and ran over the pedestrian. After coming to a complete stop, it then attempted to do a “pullover maneuver while the pedestrian was underneath the vehicle.” The car crawled along at 7 mph for about 20 feet, then came to a final stop. The pedestrian remained under the car the whole time.

The day after the incident, DMV representatives met with Cruise to “discuss the incident.” During that meeting, Cruise only showed footage up to the first complete stop, according to the Order of Suspension. No one at Cruise told the officers or showed any footage of the subsequent pullover maneuver and dragging. The DMV only learned of that from “another government agency.” When DMV asked for footage of that part of the incident, Cruise provided it.

So TL;DR: The cruise vehicle stopped, then tried to pull over while dragging the person under the car. Then Cruise tried to hide that from the DMV.

Cruise Self-Driving License Revoked After It Withheld Pedestrian Injury Footage, DMV Says

The DMV said the vehicles “are not safe for the public’s operation.”

www.vice.com

The worst part is people will put all robotaxis in the same bucket and slam companies like Waymo - which is clearly more capable and a lot more risk-averse (which is a different problem).

Yup, I was talking about this the other day and how I hope the general sentiment doesn't become "AVs are evil" or some variant because of acts (mostly by Cruise).

 

[HVM]

Something in the Vice numbers don't make sense, 20 feet takes two seconds in 7 mph, that is very short time to stop from a crash. Also very short video. Yes 20 feet (6m) it still long way to be dragged, but not so long for major-street speed collision.