Dan Neil: Tesla S: a model citizen

[Cobos]

I might add that as Ozman said, Dan might simply be stating things we did actually knew for a long time. I've always assumed that the timing and price is the first to go from what they have listed. If you on the other hand keep them locked (since Tesla have been so direct on those metrics), then obviously every other piece of spec is up for grabs.
Dan might simply have stated that.
The fact that Elon has been very "creative" in his wording at times though is a way to drum up sales I suppose.

Cobos

 

[ozman]

I agree that the screen is not a big deal. I do not really know that much about SpaceX and am not really interested in it so I will concede on that one just because I do not care enough to refute it. But one of the big sales points on the Roadsster is that it does 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. That is a pretty major selling point in my opinion and that has not been delivered on yet. Prices were changed in a major way after people signed up for them and many other sticking points that have been discussed here on this site. I think they have tried to deliver the product that they sold but to date they have not done so. Buying it is fine as long as you know what you are getting. The original numbers that came out when they marketed the Roadster were much more vague. I think they said 0-60 will be around 4 seconds and other things like that before Elon came on to the company. Then things got more concrete and balck and white after Elon came on to the company. Most of those things turned out to be not true as of yet.

Not to be rude, and please don't take this the wrong way. But my suggestion? Write up a business plan, get some VC money and start your own electric car company. I think you'd find the politics, economics, marketing and engineering would require you to wear many different hats too.

I agree, and I know many at Tesla have admitted they had made some major mistakes, in management, in car, etc. The fact that they didn't disappear into vaporware and have come extremely close to delivering what they promised says a lot about the company and the people behind it as a whole. That in mind, if it were my money, as I already said, and if I really needed the money and couldn't afford to extend beyond the base price I wouldn't be putting down $40k at the moment, until more details and options, prices, etc are released. I think that will come relatively shortly after the Government loan is approved. However, I have faith that they will deliver their major commitments and the car (which is a lot more than most other car startups, let alone EVs have done). However, I don't think you should be angry at Tesla for aggressively pushing now. They need pre-orders to prove viability, get the loan and make this a reality. Elon is currently wearing that hat.

As for SpaceX. Lets say their stated aim was to reduce the cost of sending people and cargo into orbit by a factor of 10 and have a fully reusable rocket. They are not there yet, however they are by far have the cheapest launch vehicle going around and NASA intends to use them to replace the Space Shuttle to service the International Space Station. Quite an achievement for another startup going up against Boeing and Lockheed.

 

[Kevin Harney]

I am not angry at them for pushing and I am not even angry them them doing so agressively. What I am angry about is them doing it in such a deceatful and misleading way. I think they can do the same thing and be honest while they are doing it.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Wow I didn't realize this would start such a strong discussion. The only thing they have walked backed from for sure is the 45 minute charge (if this article is accurate).

The 17" screen is iffy and battery swapping is still being worked on. So those aren't actually out for sure.

They never said that they are stepping back on the 7 seat thing.

For the most part, the car is still what it is in the major specs including the battery capacities and the performance.

Hope that clarifies things.

edit: I expect them to have meetings with customers to discuss this probably.

 

[Darkstar12]

I see his fingers typing, but nothing of interest on screen...

Let's all remember that this was an article by Dan Neil...not Tesla. As gifted a poet Dan Neil is, and admittedly a Tesla fan, his words are not...Tesla. The Model S will continue to develop. Elon will continue to support, believe, produce and succeed. The world will still go round. I agree with Doug. Accusations aside, opinions are merely that...opinions. I am a believer. I believe in Tesla. I believe in Elon. I believe that Macaroni and Cheese is the greatest meal man ever created. (Why do I have a feeling that Kevin will argue that point, too...hahaha). To those skeptics who like to wax-poetic, please see the process through, and prepare to write your apologies. The Model S has, and will, change the world!!! Hasn't the Roadster?!?! Why...yes...yes it has!

 

[dpeilow]

Whoa, whoa!

I saw this article this morning in the paper and see I was beaten to the post - but I am amazed by the venom directed at Elon here.

We knew there would be no ability to hook up to *any* high voltage source, but I thought that didn't rule out a special DC charger. Perhaps the journalist has the wrong end of the stick? I think we should seek clarification before this thread becomes another tirade.

There's a long way to go before we production. All car companies change specs during that time. If you don't like that, perhaps signing up this far out isn't for you.

 

[AnOutsider]

I concur that we should wait for more "official" information from Tesla.. my dismay was basically the culmunation of this article and various other past tidbits.

Tesla taking back the 45-minute quick charge claim made by Elon is just another straw on the camel's back. It's not the first time Tesla employees were upset that Elon publically promised something that they all pretty much knew it could not deliver on.

I'm extremely excited for what Tesla could potentially bring to the table, I just wish the person we got our info from was a little more realistic and reserved. Here's to hoping anyways

 

[Kevin Harney]

First of all I DO believe in Tesla. What I don't believe is Elon. I wish Tesla the VERY best I can and I HOPE with all of my heart they succeed. I am with AnOutsider on the realistic and reserved part. Elon is a loose maverick and we have all seen what mavericks can do for the country LOL. But I certainly don't want to start a political debate too :biggrin:

For the record I LOVE mac and cheese :smile: and I sincerely hope that I have to come back here with hat in hand a say I was wrong. I had my heart set on the Model S and still sort of do ... though that is waning fast the more Elon talks.

All I am saying is take the microphone from him and hand it to someone that thinks before they talk. Perhaps even someone that has even the slightest clue about marketing. There are many things that I am sure Elon is good at but public speaking and marketing are not at the top of his list. Let others do what they do best. I think he does more harm than good in this capacity. PLEASE concentrate on the things that he does best.

 

[vfx]

Seems like in these days of "The Google", that it actually benefits a huckster to put out some plans (note that "plans" are just shy of promises) for a new car and then as time goes by just change them as needed. The advantage is that a car's features and abilities remain in the interether giving good vibes to the project.

Look at Fisker right now. If you do a search you will most likely find the optimistic November release and indeed an article just written yesterday said the Karma has a 2009 release.

Elon might be playing the internet memory disinformation game. He knows that his hyperbole can linger as long as the lies spread by haters. Smarmy? A bit. But that's our Elon.

 

[Kevin Harney]

Smarmy. Yes that is the image that we want to use to make sure that we get away from the image of car dealers of the past ..... sigh

 

[Darkstar12]

Smarmy?! I got your "smarmy" right here...hahaha!

I appreciate that Kevin recognizes part of Tesla's goal. I've had the absolute pleasure of visiting the LA Showroom. Jeremy, Kyrstin and Michael know more about...cars...than any one car salesman I've talked to. And I dare any "dealership" to find a more lovely, friendly greeter than Leila. It's not a "sales" experience. But a process of education, awareness, professionalism...and most importantly...PASSION. I never felt I was getting sold. But, I tell ya, I surely wanted to BUY when I left. Tesla is changing the global perception of the automotive retail industry. Casual attire. Casual environment, and plenty of smiles and thanks to go around. No pressure. And I have to think that Elon is the mastermind behind this process. He gets it. What some of you see has "smarmy" or misleading, I intrepret as passion, excitement, enthusiasm...and the ability to see the finish line. See through the glitz and glammer, and Tesla has a leader that gets it. The same could be said about Fisker, but as posted previously, he misses the mark quite often. Henrik seems to like the camera, more than his product. I'm glad to see the emotions put back in their holsters. Since Kevin and I agree about Mac n Cheese, I'll start a petition to include a bowl with every Model S purchase. Happy food for a happy occasion. I envy all future-owners. Thank you for investing in our future...

 

[AnOutsider]

Darkstar, that's all fair and well, but it doesn't really have much to do about the topic at hand. No one is questioning what kind of employees Tesla has or if it's Elon's goal to have them be that way...

 

[Darkstar12]

Noted...but

I appreciate your input Outsider. But, as many posts/blogs do before, we tend to get a bit off topic. I was merely injecting my "opinion". I feel my comments further support Elon's image. That's all. But, 10-4 there Rubber Ducky. I will only post what I feel is directly on-topic. Yeah...Free Speech...

 

[AnOutsider]

I appreciate your input Outsider. But, as many posts/blogs do before, we tend to get a bit off topic. I was merely injecting my "opinion". I feel my comments further support Elon's image. That's all. But, 10-4 there Rubber Ducky. I will only post what I feel is directly on-topic. Yeah...Free Speech...

Let's not get to trolling here with silly sarcastic remarks.

I was merely stating that if you are trying to counter what we are saying, then I didn't feel mentioning that service reps were knowledgeable really countered our opinion that Elon Musk should stop speaking half-truths in order to hype things up.

 

[rolosrevenge]

Elon knows what he needs to do

I think Elon is doing this dance to get the loans. Government loans is all about perceptions. Politicians see the first news release and think "This is great, we need this, now!" and they put pressure on DOE. Also, if he gets lots of deposites it helps show viability to get the DOE money, which I think they should get because of their successes so far. I think that the Model S will not dissappoint either, when they actually have the production models completed.

 

[AnOutsider]

I'm here at the event now, waiting on my model s ride.In his speech elon stated the car would have the quickcharge and another associate said the screen would also be in it. Either the writer is misinformed or no one alerted these guys. I'm hoping for the former

 

[Kevin Harney]

Outsider,

Welcome to Elon's world of seduction..... :biggrin:

 

[Arnold Panz]

I agree with those who think that Elon is doing some "exaggerating" for marketing purposes (regular folks won't remember such specific 3 years from now when the cars start hopefully rolling off the assembly line). I also think it's CRUCIAL that they get the DOE loans, and he needs to show as much support for the company and Model S as possible, which especially means getting as many deposits as possible.

One other point -- I don't think it's feasible to just "give the microphone" to professional marketing people. For better or worse, Elon is the face of Tesla, and is the one the press (including Letterman) are interested in because of his history (PayPal), wealth (ibid.), and general reputation. If Tesla wants publicity and attention drawn to its product(s), it needs Elon out in front, for better or worse.

I believe the Tesla is still poised to produce a Model S substantially similar to the prototype, and I think that's a reasonable expectation to have, even if it doesn't have everything in the prototype. They produced the Roadster with the odds stacked largely against them, and that gives them a lot of credibility in my book for doing the same for the Model S. I have a deposit in, and nothing in that article makes me want to get it back.

 

[AnOutsider]

Outsider,

Welcome to Elon's world of seduction..... :biggrin:

haha I know right.. as an aside, here are some IN-PRINT points from a lil thing they were handing out tonight:

--45 minute quickcharge
--charges from 120V, 240V or 480V
--5 minute battery swap
--17 inch infotainment touchscreen
--Seating for 7 people

It was also mentioned the top-speed was 130... Got to ride in both Teslas tonight and man, that roadster can move! Too bad it's so small (and not to my aesthetic taste), it could make a cool ride

 

[vfx]

When it gets right down to it, why did they even let him drive it?

Thought he was a fanboy?
Fell for their own hype?
What could it hurt?