DNO issues with charger install

[arg]

I think the underlying issue here is that these things are largely sized not on any truly objective basis, but rather by using formulae that "have always worked OK in the past" while giving remarkably small numbers. You've then got new things suddenly becoming fashionable that break those formulae and special measures are needed to prop up the system.

A bunch of people in one area all switching their boilers for heatpumps could cause a real problem - and isn't particularly unlikely: say an area with no mains gas so heating is typically oil, reach the tipping point where electric heatpump is cheaper, one good salesman goes round his patch picking up a bunch of customers who then all recommend it to their neighbours. Likewise to an extent with EVs.

Conversely, 500 litre UVCs aren't mainstream and the network can tolerate the odd one or two customers with oddball technology so long as everybody doesn't get in on the act.

I'm not sure I'd defend these measures as being well thought through, but it's easy to see how we got here and not obvious that there's a better alternative.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I think you're right. A particular bugbear of mine are the salespeople that are targeting older people and selling them "magically super efficient" plug in electric heating. We're well off the gas grid here, so most use oil or LPG, and we have a disproportionately high number of older people (the local surgery recently wrote an article mentioning that over 60% of their patients were over 65). As a consequence, I'm seeing more and more damage to, often fairly old, outlets and wiring, from people who are running plug in electric heaters for long periods.

A glance through any of the publications aimed at older people will usually show a few adverts from some of these electric heater sales people, who seem to adopt sales tactics akin to those used by double glazing sales people. Some sail very close to the wind with the wording of their adverts, too, and all appear to be "reassuringly expensive".

 

[SirRob]

Is asking a friendly electrician to plumb it in without a Part-P certificate really going to be the end of the world? I know it goes against the hyper-pedantic way of the internet in which we must all prove through the endless quotation of rules and regulations how ridiculous we all are, but if you're planning on charging overnight and can arrange your energy usage accordingly it's unlikely to be an issue.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Is asking a friendly electrician to plumb it in without a Part-P certificate really going to be the end of the world? I know it goes against the hyper-pedantic way of the internet in which we must all prove through the endless quotation of rules and regulations how ridiculous we all are, but if you're planning on charging overnight and can arrange your energy usage accordingly it's unlikely to be an issue.

Honest answer? No, in fact you may well end up with a better installation, in terms of appearance and safety. Much depends on the competence of the person doing the work, and whether they really care about doing a neat job.

The problem is really only when you get a periodic inspection done (may well not be an issue then, though) or when the house is put up for sale. When we sold our old house I just removed the charge point and some additional wiring I'd added to convert the garage into a workshop before I did the pre-sale EICR. Not a major issue, IMHO, although others may well disagree. I've always taken the view that if an installation is safe and compliant, which includes whether or not the capacity of the supply is theoretically within limits, then I don't think it matters who did the work. Others may well take a different view.

 

[Jason71]

Well, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to point out the lack of seals, as it's a sign that someone has done something illegal - if they come out for some other reason (like checking the fuse rating) they'll probably just "tut tut" and re-seal, but if you rub their noses in it they might want to dig deeper.

The legal regulations that require them to tell you the fuse size are commonly referred to as the "ESQCR".

you are right in principal but no work has been done by the DNO since I bought the house the meter was upgraded in 1989 according to a label on it that may be their last visit. For all I know there genuinely might have been no seals on it since then. I had never given the thing a second look until a few days ago. Any electrical work done on the house on my watch has all be above board by certified electricians and I have all the paperwork.
But I agree this should be an approach of last resort though I don't think home owners should have anything to fear reporting something like this. It would be rather counter productive to discourage people with genuine safety concerns.

 

[SirRob]

Honest answer? No, in fact you may well end up with a better installation, in terms of appearance and safety. Much depends on the competence of the person doing the work, and whether they really care about doing a neat job.

The problem is really only when you get a periodic inspection done (may well not be an issue then, though) or when the house is put up for sale. When we sold our old house I just removed the charge point and some additional wiring I'd added to convert the garage into a workshop before I did the pre-sale EICR. Not a major issue, IMHO, although others may well disagree. I've always taken the view that if an installation is safe and compliant, which includes whether or not the capacity of the supply is theoretically within limits, then I don't think it matters who did the work. Others may well take a different view.

This is exactly my point.

In my case I met with my electrician, agreed on a standard of SWA (literally on the screwfix website) told him where I was going to run it and did everything but the installation of a new MCB and the final connections. The installation couldn't be much neater and it was cheaper and far less dramatic than getting a company to do it under OLEV.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

you are right in principal but no work has been done by the DNO since I bought the house the meter was upgraded in 1989 according to a label on it that may be their last visit. For all I know there genuinely might have been no seals on it since then. I had never given the thing a second look until a few days ago. Any electrical work done on the house on my watch has all be above board by certified electricians and I have all the paperwork.
But I agree this should be an approach of last resort though I don't think home owners should have anything to fear reporting something like this. It would be rather counter productive to discourage people with genuine safety concerns.

I've never heard of someone getting into trouble for reporting a missing seal on a fuse. I've heard of a few people getting investigated following the discovery of missing meter seals by a meter reader, but that's understandable, as one of their jobs is detection of possible electricity theft.

It's very common for missing fuse seals to be reported. I'd go so far as to say that cutting seals and pulling the fuse for isolation is relatively commonplace - I doubt I know any electrician who hasn't done it, even though most would never publicly admit to doing it. It is against the regs, as an electrician working for a consumer is only allowed to touch stuff on the consumer side, but in practice it is often too much hassle to get the DNO out to just isolate the supply to do something like CU change.

The best solution would be either for all suppliers to fit meters with isolators built in (was becoming common until the roll out of smart meters, but they don't have them), or for the DNO/supplier to install an isolator at the same time as the supply or meter is installed. I opted to fit a 100 A DP isolator on the consumer side of the meter tails on our new build, precisely to get around the problem of needing to find a way to isolate the supply without pulling the fuse. A switch fuse is cheap: Wylex 100 Amp SP&N Switchfuses and good value in terms of saving future hassle.