Powerwall and Octopus intelligent issues

[Powerwall3]

Hi,

I have posted here as I can’t find a a clear answer to my query.


I have 3 Powerwalls and zappi charger which is supplied via Powerwall, so it sits between grid and charger. I don’t have any Solar PV.

This set up is fine for fixed off peak tariff as Powerwall lets grid charge the car and charges itself in that off peak time.

However, on Octopus intelligent , when I plug in the car, the Powerwall starts charging the car as per octopus intelligent schedule and starts draining Powerwall.

I have checked with Tesla installer and he says that all installation they do has Powerwall installed in a way that it sits between grid and all electrical supply to house. They have not encountered this issue as all battery storage systems use off peak tariff (in which most people charge both cars and battery) and only Octopus intelligent tariff has smart charging as well as off peak supply so you can charge battery at off peak time but car anytime via app.

The quick solution is to connect car charger directly to mains and I asked the installer if we can connect charger directly to mains so that Powerwall does not control the charger but he has not done it before.

Has anybody else have a set up with Powerwall installed totally independent of car charger and does it work fine?

Will it cause any warranty issue?

 

[scdoubleu]

In a nutshell, Octopus Intelligent is not Powerwall friendly.

You could work around it by raising the standby reserve to match the Powerwall's current state of charge at the start of a cheap-rate period, then drop it back afterwards. I suspect that'll get tedious fairly quickly without some kind of automation.

 

[btc1k]

Hi,

I have posted here as I can’t find a a clear answer to my query.


I have 3 Powerwalls and zappi charger which is supplied via Powerwall, so it sits between grid and charger. I don’t have any Solar PV.

This set up is fine for fixed off peak tariff as Powerwall lets grid charge the car and charges itself in that off peak time.

However, on Octopus intelligent , when I plug in the car, the Powerwall starts charging the car as per octopus intelligent schedule and starts draining Powerwall.

I have checked with Tesla installer and he says that all installation they do has Powerwall installed in a way that it sits between grid and all electrical supply to house. They have not encountered this issue as all battery storage systems use off peak tariff (in which most people charge both cars and battery) and only Octopus intelligent tariff has smart charging as well as off peak supply so you can charge battery at off peak time but car anytime via app.

The quick solution is to connect car charger directly to mains and I asked the installer if we can connect charger directly to mains so that Powerwall does not control the charger but he has not done it before.

Has anybody else have a set up with Powerwall installed totally independent of car charger and does it work fine?

Will it cause any warranty issue?

With mine, I use time based control with the IO fixed off peak tariff in the PW settings, with IO smart charging off.

If I want an extra off peak slot, then IO smart charging on, and set PW reserve to its current % level. The car then charges from the grid.
Or, set PW reserve to a higher % to charge that from the grid as well.

 

[Powerwall3]

Thanks guys

But my question is

Can I not connect car charger directly to mains so that Powerwall does not see it or control it at all?

This will allow octopus to charge car independently of powerwall?

 

[scdoubleu]

You could arrange for the Zappi to be connected into your meter cupboard before the Tesla Gateway, so that the Gateway/Powerwall doesn't see the car charger as a house load.

This would be the best solution in your situation, but you'd have to rethink things should you ever add solar panels to the system.

 

[MadScientist]

I'm facing a similar dilemma with my upcoming PW2 installation. I only have a 1.7kW PV array (but a very good FIT rate ) and I don’t ever charge the car via PV. I also don’t envisage a situation where I’d want the PW2 charging the car. I thought this could be managed via time-based mode for the PW2 but IO has thrown a spanner in the works. I’m tempted to ask for the car charger to be installed before the gateway so it’s not seen as a house load. It will probably be an extra on the standard installation cost though.

 

[btc1k]

Thanks guys

But my question is

Can I not connect car charger directly to mains so that Powerwall does not see it or control it at all?

This will allow octopus to charge car independently of powerwall?

Yes, as scdoubleu posted , you can get a leccy to wire up the charger on the grid side of the Gateway, if you want.

 

[Powerwall3]

You could arrange for the Zappi to be connected into your meter cupboard before the Tesla Gateway, so that the Gateway/Powerwall doesn't see the car charger as a house load.

This would be the best solution in your situation, but you'd have to rethink things should you ever add solar panels to the system.

Thanks

This is what I want to do but would it cause any warranty issues or any overloading issues

I contacted the installer and he was saying he has not done it as it might cause overloading as Tesla Gateway is not controlling everything?

 

[KennethS]

Thanks

This is what I want to do but would it cause any warranty issues or any overloading issues

I contacted the installer and he was saying he has not done it as it might cause overloading as Tesla Gateway is not controlling everything?

You mention you have 3 Powerwalls. If so, collectively they can draw 15kW when charging. Add 7.2kW with one EV charge point. That is without any other demands from your home. I’d be worried about overloading the incoming supply if the charge point is wired outside of the Powerwall Gateway control.

 

[Powerwall3]

You mention you have 3 Powerwalls. If so, collectively they can draw 15kW when charging. Add 7.2kW with one EV charge point. That is without any other demands from your home. I’d be worried about overloading the incoming supply if the charge point is wired outside of the Powerwall Gateway control.

This is what I am trying to avoid!

I had powerwall for 2 month now and in current setup the powerwall has blown fuse twice in 2 weeks and they have replaced fuse to 80am. I have been asked to sort it out.

The issue is that the car and powerwall start charging at 11:30 pm and drawing up to 19.2kw per hour sometimes.

I want to separate them so that I can charge car before 10pm every day using on octopus intelligent and hence avoiding overloading.

If I restrict charging this way, it should help?

 

[Andywil]

This is what I am trying to avoid!

I had powerwall for 2 month now and in current setup the powerwall has blown fuse twice in 2 weeks and they have replaced fuse to 80am. I have been asked to sort it out.

The issue is that the car and powerwall start charging at 11:30 pm and drawing up to 19.2kw per hour sometimes.

I want to separate them so that I can charge car before 10pm every day using on octopus intelligent and hence avoiding overloading.

If I restrict charging this way, it should help?

Your installer should have set the powerwall maximum import to a value less than the main fuse.
The fact that you have blown the fuse means that they did not correctly perform the installation, and the DNO may have to be involved, or MCS body.

 

[Powerwall3]

Your installer should have set the powerwall maximum import to a value less than the main fuse.
The fact that you have blown the fuse means that they did not correctly perform the installation, and the DNO may have to be involved, or MCS body.

Thanks

I have asked him to sort bit our and he has said he will speak with Tesla but nothing has been done

 

[KennethS]

Thanks

I have asked him to sort bit our and he has said he will speak with Tesla but nothing has been done

It sounds like he set the site import limit at 19.2kW, which I believe is okay with a 100amp supply although at the high end of acceptable for a sustained continuous load (on a 100amp supply). If your supply is 80amp, that would have me nervous. I am neither an electrician nor very knowledgeable but this is based on what I have read doing internet research (always dangerous I know).

Moving the EV charge point outside of the Tesla Gateway site import control would mean potentially 19.2kW plus the EV charge demand. That would be a no-go.

 

[Garry TheBiz]

You could arrange for the Zappi to be connected into your meter cupboard before the Tesla Gateway, so that the Gateway/Powerwall doesn't see the car charger as a house load.

This would be the best solution in your situation, but you'd have to rethink things should you ever add solar panels to the system.

This is how we have ours arranged. Powerwall does not see the Zappi, and I oblivious to it. It means the Zappi always charges from the grid ... except when the Zappi is in Eco+, the Powerwalls are full, and there's solar excess. In that situation the Zappi charges from solar excess .

The only consequence is that the Zappi can never take priority over the Powerwalls for excess solar. The Powerwalls will always grab the excess first, and only when full, will the Zappi see any excess.

In our setup, when the Zappi sees excess, the Eddi takes it before the Zappi, as that's what we prefer.

 

[ACarneiro]

It sounds like he set the site import limit at 19.2kW, which I believe is okay with a 100amp supply although at the high end of acceptable for a sustained continuous load (on a 100amp supply). If your supply is 80amp, that would have me nervous. I am neither an electrician nor very knowledgeable but this is based on what I have read doing internet research (always dangerous I know).

Moving the EV charge point outside of the Tesla Gateway site import control would mean potentially 19.2kW plus the EV charge demand. That would be a no-go.

I have a 100A fuse and Site Import Limit set to 22kW
During the depths of last winter with car and PWs charging, heat pumps and immersion heater running I had the house pegged on 22kW for the whole 5 hours of Go Faster and it was fine.

Just a data point that might be useful.

 

[Powerwall3]

This is how we have ours arranged. Powerwall does not see the Zappi, and I oblivious to it. It means the Zappi always charges from the grid ... except when the Zappi is in Eco+, the Powerwalls are full, and there's solar excess. In that situation the Zappi charges from solar excess .

The only consequence is that the Zappi can never take priority over the Powerwalls for excess solar. The Powerwalls will always grab the excess first, and only when full, will the Zappi see any excess.

In our setup, when the Zappi sees excess, the Eddi takes it before the Zappi, as that's what we prefer.

This is how we have ours arranged. Powerwall does not see the Zappi, and I oblivious to it. It means the Zappi always charges from the grid ... except when the Zappi is in Eco+, the Powerwalls are full, and there's solar excess. In that situation the Zappi charges from solar excess .

The only consequence is that the Zappi can never take priority over the Powerwalls for excess solar. The Powerwalls will always grab the excess first, and only when full, will the Zappi see any excess.

In our setup, when the Zappi sees excess, the Eddi takes it before the Zappi, as that's what we prefer.

I think this is what I want to do- Was this done by Tesla installer?

 

[Powerwall3]

It sounds like he set the site import limit at 19.2kW, which I believe is okay with a 100amp supply although at the high end of acceptable for a sustained continuous load (on a 100amp supply). If your supply is 80amp, that would have me nervous. I am neither an electrician nor very knowledgeable but this is based on what I have read doing internet research (always dangerous I know).

Moving the EV charge point outside of the Tesla Gateway site import control would mean potentially 19.2kW plus the EV charge demand. That would be a no-go.

Can he reduce it remotely?

 

[KennethS]

Can he reduce it remotely?

I’m not certain if an installer can alter the settings without a site visit but Tesla support should be able to do it remotely.

 

[PITA]

Hi,

I have posted here as I can’t find a a clear answer to my query.


I have 3 Powerwalls and zappi charger which is supplied via Powerwall, so it sits between grid and charger. I don’t have any Solar PV.

This set up is fine for fixed off peak tariff as Powerwall lets grid charge the car and charges itself in that off peak time.

However, on Octopus intelligent , when I plug in the car, the Powerwall starts charging the car as per octopus intelligent schedule and starts draining Powerwall.

I have checked with Tesla installer and he says that all installation they do has Powerwall installed in a way that it sits between grid and all electrical supply to house. They have not encountered this issue as all battery storage systems use off peak tariff (in which most people charge both cars and battery) and only Octopus intelligent tariff has smart charging as well as off peak supply so you can charge battery at off peak time but car anytime via app.

The quick solution is to connect car charger directly to mains and I asked the installer if we can connect charger directly to mains so that Powerwall does not control the charger but he has not done it before.

Has anybody else have a set up with Powerwall installed totally independent of car charger and does it work fine?

Will it cause any warranty issue?

Yes, this is what I do.

We have two Powerwalls on a single phase (L1) Tesla Gateway. A 7kW Zappi Charger is connected to the Gateway and supplies power to the car from excess solar, stored Powerwall or Grid. This single phase supplies the house Consumer Unit, with full Powerwall backup.

But... I also set up an additional external Consumer Unit outside by the meter box, where I have two 22kW Zappi ev chargers wired on the incoming 3 phase supply. These chargers are 'Grid only' and cannot see the Powerwalls or Solar Array.

So it's doing exactly what you want, upstream from the Powerwalls... whereby Intelligent Octopus can do whatever it wants, but doesn't affect the house.

Our setup then allows me to use the 7kW charger during Summer, transferring excess solar into the chosen car. But during Winter both cars can be plugged into the 'Grid only' 22kW fast chargers. Great to use mid day as well (peak rate) but doesn't interfere with Solar or Powerwalls if you just need fast charging immediately.

It's the perfect setup for using Intelligent Octopus tariff... in my opinion...

The power map is quiet at the moment...

 

[PITA]

Thanks

This is what I want to do but would it cause any warranty issues or any overloading issues

I contacted the installer and he was saying he has not done it as it might cause overloading as Tesla Gateway is not controlling everything?

No overloading because our Zappi charger monitors the Grid Amp Loading and can automatically load balance.

So if someone in the house throws on a 10kW shower... the Zappi will automatically reduce it's charge rate if getting close to the homes Fuse Limit. In our case, all Zappi's talk to each other, and load balance between themselves.

The homes Fuse Amp Limit can be setup in the Zappi Charger Menu.