Does the limited FREE supercharging apply to used cars?

[AMPd]

I was thinking about this on the drive-in this morning.

If we are already seeing a lot of busy SCs given the existing fleet out there, especially here in California. Restricting future sales after January isn't going to do anything to help the existing charging problem.

However, if they say the unlimited charging only exists for the _original_ buyer after January as well, that would guarantee that the second-hand market would slowly age out all of those unlimited charge people and naturally thin the herd. This would completely make sense.

The only way you could "get around" that even in the personal sales market would be if you never transferred the warranty and registration to the new owner with Tesla, they would never be able to use the app and warranty issues could be messy and you would have to use the original owners name and info.

This would be a smart way for them to do it. But please make it only to used sales done after January 1st, not retroactive. Please.

It will with time as more locations will be built using the money from these new owners.

I just don't understand people advocating for tesla to remove a paid feature. What the ****?

 

[tandrup]

FWIW I just ordered a CPO and asked my Tesla CPO specialist about how they will apply the supercharging rules on CPO vehicles and she confirmed that CPO cars will be treated as new cars: You have to order prior to 1/1/17 and take delivery prior to April 2017. I asked her if that was her speculating or if that was confirmed by Tesla and she sent me a written response that it was confirmed. I took it with a grain of salt since she is the one trying to sell me a CPO, but believed it enough to pull the trigger now...

 

[Sonny Daze]

FWIW I just ordered a CPO and asked my Tesla CPO specialist about how they will apply the supercharging rules on CPO vehicles and she confirmed that CPO cars will be treated as new cars: You have to order prior to 1/1/17 and take delivery prior to April 2017. I asked her if that was her speculating or if that was confirmed by Tesla and she sent me a written response that it was confirmed. I took it with a grain of salt since she is the one trying to sell me a CPO, but believed it enough to pull the trigger now...

That's news! You might become very popular here (one way or the other) very quickly.

 

[tandrup]

That's news! You might become very popular here (one way or the other) very quickly.

You may be right - I am curious what others have heard from Tesla. My comment is based on correspondence with the Tesla "North West Pre-Owned Advisor". As I indicated who knows if she is 100% truthful or not, but my decision was not to gamble on her just trying to push a quick sale. I guess time will tell

 

[Az_Rael]

I just don't understand people advocating for tesla to remove a paid feature. What the ****?

My thought is that some unlimted plan cars are putting a much greater burden on the network (see: taxis/tesloop, etc) and Tesla would like to reduce those cars over time. That improves the experience for everyone. If they decide to make the supercharger plan non tranferrable, then the number of unlimted cars decreases quicker than if they have to wait out the "life" of those vehicles.

As far as taking away something paid: my purchase contract says absolutely nothing about unlimited supercharging, or even free supercharging for life. My contract says "supercharging enabled". Tesla isn't taking that away for 2nd owners, supercharging will still be enabled. And Tesla wouldn't be falsely advertising to those 2nd owners either - by the time they buy the cars, all the advertising will be for the new supercharger plan. Unlimited won't exist anymore.

Its like how the BMW "free" maintenance plan purchased as part of the price of the car is no longer tranferable to a 2nd owner.

 

[DarkMatter]

You may be right - I am curious what others have heard from Tesla. My comment is based on correspondence with the Tesla "North West Pre-Owned Advisor". As I indicated who knows if she is 100% truthful or not, but my decision was not to gamble on her just trying to push a quick sale. I guess time will tell

I assume that's Carol. She has always been a hundred percent honest and straightforward in my interactions with her. If she says it is the case I expect that it is the case, barring a course correction. I'll be taking delivery of my CPO P85 on the 22nd, and worked with her to help find it (though ultimately actually found it on ev-cpo.com).

 

[BEEZR]

I don't think Tesla wants the PR blowback from owners if they "take away" the free supercharging that existing owners currently enjoy should they sell their car privately. I can see them limiting on CPO sales post 1/17, at least to make it a straightforward story for "any car purchased from Tesla after 1/17" or whatever they choose to say. Also makes it easier to compare CPO to new -- people will over/undervalue the supercharging and how much they may actually use it.

I think owners would have a case in court if Tesla said the SC goes away when you sell privately. Supercharging enabled, (the cost is understood to be built into the price of the car), has meant you can use the SC network, which has always been free and unlimited. It's like them saying they now want to charge for using the radio/streaming. If you want to turn it on it's going to cost you more -- but it was already paid for when the car was purchased. They don't want the negative PR much less a class-action suit leading up to the launch of Model 3.

 

[AMPd]

My thought is that some unlimted plan cars are putting a much greater burden on the network (see: taxis/tesloop, etc) and Tesla would like to reduce those cars over time. That improves the experience for everyone. If they decide to make the supercharger plan non tranferrable, then the number of unlimted cars decreases quicker than if they have to wait out the "life" of those vehicles.

As far as taking away something paid: my purchase contract says absolutely nothing about unlimited supercharging, or even free supercharging for life. My contract says "supercharging enabled". Tesla isn't taking that away for 2nd owners, supercharging will still be enabled. And Tesla wouldn't be falsely advertising to those 2nd owners either - by the time they buy the cars, all the advertising will be for the new supercharger plan. Unlimited won't exist anymore.

Its like how the BMW "free" maintenance plan purchased as part of the price of the car is no longer tranferable to a 2nd owner.

Actually I purchased the car when they were advertising "free supercharging for the life of the car"
So for them to take that away would be absurd, obviously I probably didn't actually get that in writing, but that doesn't change the fact that they'll still be royally f***ing me over by taking that option away just because I decided to sell the car.
Did you get it in writing that your pano roof will open and close? No? Well I as an investor hope they take that option away, less problems, less money lost fixing it under warranty. ... What? You paid for a pano roof... it doesn't say whether it opens or not.


Not that any of this matters, they're not going to do that.

I just find it weird that some people are actually for such an idea.

 

[AMPd]

I don't think Tesla wants the PR blowback from owners if they "take away" the free supercharging that existing owners currently enjoy should they sell their car privately. I can see them limiting on CPO sales post 1/17, at least to make it a straightforward story for "any car purchased from Tesla after 1/17" or whatever they choose to say. Also makes it easier to compare CPO to new -- people will over/undervalue the supercharging and how much they may actually use it.

I think owners would have a case in court if Tesla said the SC goes away when you sell privately. Supercharging enabled, (the cost is understood to be built into the price of the car), has meant you can use the SC network, which has always been free and unlimited. It's like them saying they now want to charge for using the radio/streaming. If you want to turn it on it's going to cost you more -- but it was already paid for when the car was purchased. They don't want the negative PR much less a class-action suit leading up to the launch of Model 3.

Finally someone who gets it.
Don't forget some owners actually paid 2-2.5k for the option.
So for tesla to remove that option would be a problem.

Not that they would.

 

[Az_Rael]

but that doesn't change the fact that they'll still be royally f***ing me over by taking that option away just because I decided to sell the car

Not sure how you would be affected? If Tesla took it away from ALL sales to 2nd owners, then your car would be equal to every other Tesla on the used market just like it is now.

 

[BEEZR]

Not sure how you would be affected? If Tesla took it away from ALL sales to 2nd owners, then your car would be equal to every other Tesla on the used market just like it is now.

But it would devalue the car further and advantage Tesla by making new cars that much more attractive price-wise and/or strengthening their CPO value. In any case, I just don't see them doing it.

 

[Az_Rael]

But it would devalue the car further and advantage Tesla by making new cars that much more attractive price-wise and/or strengthening their CPO value. In any case, I just don't see them doing it.

Well, the continual autopilot updates probably do more to devalue older cars than anything else. How much will our classic cars be worth when AP 3 is released? I don't see how CPOs value would be strengthened over private sales - neither car would have unlimited supercharging. CPOs are valued for the warranty and are worth more than private sales already.

I honestly don't think they will mess with it, and let the supercharging plan be transferable, but I take issue with all the gloom and doom predictions about all the value they would be taking away if they do decide to make this change.

 

[AMPd]

Not sure how you would be affected? If Tesla took it away from ALL sales to 2nd owners, then your car would be equal to every other Tesla on the used market just like it is now.

I'd be affected because the resale value would go down.
Let's say I'm a 60kwh model S owner who paid the 2k not so I can use the sc but so I can sell the car for a bit more later on, now tesla just took that away from me... am I not affected financially?

 

[Az_Rael]

I'd be affected because the resale value would go down.
Let's say I'm a 60kwh model S owner who paid the 2k not so I can use the sc but so I can sell the car for a bit more later on, now tesla just took that away from me... am I not affected financially?

They didn't take it away. Supercharging is still enabled on that S60 and would be for the next owner. Besides, that price originally included DC fast charging with Chademo, so that value (the majority of the price at $1500) is still there.

 

[AMPd]

They didn't take it away. Supercharging is still enabled on that S60 and would be for the next owner. Besides, that price originally included DC fast charging with Chademo, so that value (the majority of the price at $1500) is still there.

I know they didn't... I thought we were arguing the hypothetical.

You said it wouldn't affect anyone if they did, obviously it would.


I even said above that it doesn't matter what we say, tesla won't remove the free for life sc if you sell your car private party.

 

[Az_Rael]

I know they didn't... I thought we were arguing the hypothetical.

You said it wouldn't affect anyone if they did, obviously it would.


I even said above that it doesn't matter what we say, tesla won't remove the free for life sc if you sell your car private party.

We are arguing the hypothetical. The supercharging capability would still exist on an s60 if Tesla decided to make the unlimited plans non transferrable. The new owner will get 400 kWh of free supercharging per year.

I don't think anyone's value would be changed if they did this across the board. No one would be able to buy a car with unlimited supercharging, so used values won't be affected.

 

[AMPd]

We are arguing the hypothetical. The supercharging capability would still exist on an s60 if Tesla decided to make the unlimited plans non transferrable. The new owner will get 400 kWh of free supercharging per year.

I don't think anyone's value would be changed if they did this across the board. No one would be able to buy a car with unlimited supercharging, so used values won't be affected.

No, I paid 2k for unlimited supercharging for the life of the car.
Used value would definitely be affected, I can't charge the buyer for that option because that option no longer exists, even though I paid for it.

 

[Az_Rael]

No, I paid 2k for unlimited supercharging for the life of the car.
Used value would definitely be affected, I can't charge the buyer for that option because that option no longer exists, even though I paid for it.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think the market will be that affected. Having an older version (or no version) of AP seems to be a larger differentiator in used prices. Even performance upgrades haven't held up in value (I bought a "P" for LESS than an "S" of the same vintage) I am doubtful you could get a full $2k for your supercharging option on the used market today.

 

[AMPd]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think the market will be that affected. Having an older version (or no version) of AP seems to be a larger differentiator in used prices. Even performance upgrades haven't held up in value (I bought a "P" for LESS than an "S" of the same vintage) I am doubtful you could get a full $2k for your supercharging option on the used market today.

I will not agree to disagree, you can't honestly sit there and say it's ok for tesla to remove an option one paid for.

I guess you can if you weren't the one who paid for it.

 

[Troy]

Tesla doesn't need to remove free supercharging when the owner changes in order to reduce the number of people using local superchargers for their daily commute. Instead, they can simply keep long distance supercharging free but move local supercharging to pay as you go only. That would be the quickest solution. There are two ways they could do that:

Option 1: Superchargers x miles from people's home are excluded from the free for life plan but can be used on PAYG.
Option 2: Tesla classifies all existing superchargers either as long distance or city superchargers based on their location. City superchargers will be excluded from free for life plan but can be used on PAYG.