Dragtimes P90D Ludicrous 0-60mph and 0-100mph video

[P85DEE]

With each instance, the Ludicrous that we are seeing in the field, looks remarkably similar to what's being promised in the P85D Luducrous upgrade.

Maybe this is what we're looking at. Because it's clear that what is being shipped now are not 10.9 second cars. Not by a good margin.

That at begs the question; "what possible reason(s) would they do this?"

 

[lolachampcar]

I think the P90D was in the pipeline when Elon mentioned the OTA update that would provide performance not seen outside the factory pending engineering verification comment. The team determined that additional hardware was required thus the birth of the P85DL upgrade. The slight improvement of the current iteration of the P90DL over the P85D is likely a combination of the 90 (increased capacity, slightly better current sourcing capability from different chemistry, ???) and a small raise in power extraction from the battery. This would allow enough differentiation from the P85D to warrant shipping and the extra cost even knowing they were missing the 1/4 mile number.

Fast forward to the MotorTrend piece and engineering has now properly proved the full P90DL concept thus the 2.6 sec 0-60 (beating the published spec ala P85 in its day) and making the 10.9 second 1/4 mile which is mind numbing for me. The thing that has me predicting an OTA upgrade for P90DL customers is that there is no way Tesla would have give MT access to a 10.9 second car if that same capability was not in the pipeline for existing customers. That would be begging for significant backlash.

IF
I am correct with the above, the P85DL SHOULD be an 11.1 second car with a 2.8 second 0-60. This is what I think they are getting to when they mention the .2 second difference between the 90 and 85 DL. This level of difference would be consistent with Elon's comments that the move to 90 would not make much sense as it would not provide that much more performance for the cost of having to swap out the battery component.

 

[brianman]

This is what I think they are getting to when they mention the .2 second difference between the 90 and 85 DL.

Elaborate? Specifically, where is this statement and by whom? Thanks.

 

[P85DEE]

Good synopsis.

Indeed, I'm so certain that an update for current P90D Ludicrous owners is in the pipeline, and for the reasons you state, that were I the owner of a P90D Ludicrous car right now, I wouldn't even bother taking it to the track.

With the work by fiksgt, and over 30 passes in three states, by three different drivers, 19in and 21in wheel tire setups, you can see that even if you flog the hell out of it, 20 passes at a time, you're still going to be nowhere close to 10.9 right now.

I hope that whatever is in the works, carries over to P85D Ludicrous upgraders.

But they've only promised 2 tenths improvement over what we have.

I'm hoping that they under promise and over deliver in this case.

 

[Ames]

I'm curious, what do you guys think would be the performance of a fully optioned P90D , after "the update to MotorTrend performance"? How about 0-60 in 2.7 and 11.0 1/4 mile?

 

[lolachampcar]

Brian,
Several forum members have indicated Tesla has said there is a .2 difference between what an 85 L upgrade delivers and XYZ. I think it is in the L upgrade page but am too lazy to go look.

Some have speculated that the XYZ is .2 seconds better than existing P85D performance. My speculation is that it is .2 seconds less than MotorTrend's P90DL performance.

Ames,
I would like to see Fiks reproduce MT's results then stick a 200 lb passenger in the car and make a few passes. This way we will get back to back data on what 200 lbs added to the car actually does to 1/4 mile times.

Brian,
Got off my lazy butt. You are correct (as always ).
"This upgrade represents an estimate 10% increase in power over the already insane P85D, provides for a 0.2 second improvement over both the 0-60 mph and the quarter mile time, from your current vehicle performance. (The retrofit will not be an exact equivalent performance spec as a new P90D.)"

 

[Bill D]

...I suspect the Ds are not as close to the tire limits as we might think. Those 60 foot times are repeatable as well which makes me think the car is not on the hairy edge of traction. My P+ used to leave "bar code" marks where power was being limited on slip of the rear wheels. My PD never leaves a mark....

lolachampcar,
I see the same traction difference between my P90DL and P85 and wonder why the P90DL doesn't push the tire limits like my P85 does. This observation may explain why MT saw 2.6 sec 0-60 instead of 2.8, if, as you theorize, MT was running unreleased SW. That unreleased SW may have a different traction algorithm that pressed harder 0-60 (along with more HP, which bumped up the MPH).

To address the question of why Tesla would hold back and incrementally release this improvement: Slipping the rear wheels only is relatively safe because you can still steer (even top fuel cars can steer while slipping) but slipping all four wheels is more dangerous, so Tesla may have chosen to sneak-up on the tire limits. As far as sneaking-up on the HP - maybe it has something to do with blowing those new smart fuses. Regardless, I'm hoping you are correct in your prediction of an OTA update that will deliver 10.9.

 

[shokunin]

The slight improvement of the current iteration of the P90DL over the P85D is likely a combination of the 90 (increased capacity, slightly better current sourcing capability from different chemistry, ???) and a small raise in power extraction from the battery. This would allow enough differentiation from the P85D to warrant shipping and the extra cost even knowing they were missing the 1/4 mile number.

Tesla needs to get to the point of selling/release new features when they are ready, not at "some point in the future". I get the feeling the P90DL don't really have Ludicrous mode enabled at all yet and that it's just insane mode on the 90D. Once they do update the power curves for Ludicrous we'll see the sub 11 and 122+ mph trap times.

I don't understand how Tesla's finance team allows these practices. They took payment on "auto-pilot" yet it wasn't really delivered until recently. In the software world, we would not be able to recognize any revenue for any "future" promises of capability sold today, otherwise we'd be in trouble with the SEC.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Tesla needs to get to the point of selling/release new features when they are ready, not at "some point in the future". I get the feeling the P90DL don't really have Ludicrous mode enabled at all yet and that it's just insane mode on the 90D. Once they do update the power curves for Ludicrous we'll see the sub 11 and 122+ mph trap times.

I don't understand how Tesla's finance team allows these practices. They took payment on "auto-pilot" yet it wasn't really delivered until recently. In the software world, we would not be able to recognize any revenue for any "future" promises of capability sold today, otherwise we'd be in trouble with the SEC.

I'm pretty sure I read that they deferred revenue for autopilot.

Yup:

Rod A. Lache - Deutsche Bank Securities, Inc.Okay. Your run-rate of gross margin, obviously it's being affected by a number of things; by launches, by mix, the deferral of Autopilot revenue. Can you just talk a little bit about what are some of the issues there, what is the issue with Autopilot, would we – would it be reasonable to expect the margins to rise again to the 25%-plus level once X is out and Gigafactory begins to ramp?
Deepak Ahuja - Chief Financial OfficerHi, Rod, yeah, definitely. The most of the Autopilot deferral, we should be able to recover that later this year. There may be a small portion going into 2016, but difficult to say at this point. And the two big issues that have been affecting us, I'd say, is the dollar, the strong dollar, and then the mix, especially as we have started to build 70D and the 70 cars recently. The dollar has had a huge impact just from Q1 to Q2. It took 100 basis points out for us roughly. So even after we consider all of that and we look at 2016 to say that we'll be at 25% and better with S and X combined, yes, we should be there.

 

[shokunin]

I'm pretty sure I read that they deferred revenue for autopilot.

That makes me feel better, last thing I wish for Tesla, is bad accounting practices and SEC investigations.

 

[Bill D]

Deepak Ahuja - Chief Financial OfficerHi, Rod, yeah, definitely. The most of the Autopilot deferral, we should be able to recover that later this year. There may be a small portion going into 2016, but difficult to say at this point....

Interesting. This make me wonder if Tesla deferred recognizing $10K of revenue from each P90D sold with the Ludicrous Speed Upgrade because 1/4 mile ETs are still very far (0.5 seconds) short of 10.9 seconds?

 

[Stoneymonster]

Interesting. This make me wonder if Tesla deferred recognizing $10K of revenue from each P90D sold with the Ludicrous Speed Upgrade because 1/4 mile ETs are still very far (0.5 seconds) short of 10.9 seconds?

Doubtful.

 

[Andyw2100]

I get the feeling the P90DL don't really have Ludicrous mode enabled at all yet and that it's just insane mode on the 90D. Once they do update the power curves for Ludicrous we'll see the sub 11 and 122+ mph trap times.

The P90D with Ludicrous may have an update coming, as Lola has been suggesting since the Motor Trend article, and as I suggested was a possibility back when the first REST figures for the model were recorded. But to say "Ludicrous hasn't been enabled yet" also wouldn't be completely accurate, as the 0-60 time is already achievable, as announced, and is significantly better than the P85D's 0-60 time. (2.8 vs. 3.1, so .3 seconds better. I'm ignoring the MT time since we're discussing the original specifications.)

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Regarding the question of a 200 lb passenger affecting performance, I conducted that study on Saturday during my drag strip binge! My best times were solo (I'm 180 lbs) at 11.4, and my worst times with a 200+ lb passenger were 11.6. To my surprise the car kept producing 11.6 runs with a passenger at under 50% charge.

 

[lolachampcar]

Yea
A data point!
Thank You!
1) 200 lbs => .2 seconds in MS

 

[Caligula]

Regarding the question of a 200 lb passenger affecting performance, I conducted that study on Saturday during my drag strip binge! My best times were solo (I'm 180 lbs) at 11.4, and my worst times with a 200+ lb passenger were 11.6. To my surprise the car kept producing 11.6 runs with a passenger at under 50% charge.

As far back as I can remember, the golden rule for weight in drag racing is that you lose 1/10th off your quarter mile ET for every 100lbs you drop. Adding 0.2 seconds to yours with the addition of a 200lb passenger seems spot on.

 

[lolachampcar]

The only problem I've had with that approach is 11 seconds times 100 lb per .1 second yields 11000 lbs yet the MS weighs about 5000 lbs. That aside, the formula seems to work here.

 

[shokunin]

Interesting. This make me wonder if Tesla deferred recognizing $10K of revenue from each P90D sold with the Ludicrous Speed Upgrade because 1/4 mile ETs are still very far (0.5 seconds) short of 10.9 seconds?

Unlikely, since Ludicrous was mainly advertised as new contractors and fuses to handle 1500a. I'm sure the hardware is on the cars just not realizing their full potential.

 

[Bill D]

Unlikely, since Ludicrous was mainly advertised as new contractors and fuses to handle 1500a. I'm sure the hardware is on the cars just not realizing their full potential.

AutoPilot sensor hardware was "on the cars just not realizing their full potential" but it appears that the $2,500 option price was not recognized as revenue until those hardware sensors were "realizing their full potential".

In case anyone tuned-in here will be on today's earnings call - Here's a couple questions for the company:

1. The $10,000 Ludicrous Speed Upgrade is obviously a high margin option that will provide P90D buyers with significantly higher performance - How many of these options have been sold and how much revenue has been recognized from those sales?

2. When do you anticipate delivering the OTA update that will provide the 10.9 second performance that Tesla promoted to customers that purchased that option?

 

[MuppetOwl]

AutoPilot sensor hardware was "on the cars just not realizing their full potential" but it appears that the $2,500 option price was not recognized as revenue until those hardware sensors were "realizing their full potential".

In case anyone tuned-in here will be on today's earnings call - Here's a couple questions for the company:

1. The $10,000 Ludicrous Speed Upgrade is obviously a high margin option that will provide P90D buyers with significantly higher performance - How many of these options have been sold and how much revenue has been recognized from those sales?

2. When do you anticipate delivering the OTA update that will provide the 10.9 second performance that Tesla promoted to customers that purchased that option?

Yes im sure P90D will get a OTA that improves the high speed acceleration like they did write on the web page and deliver to the P85D. Or wait a sec