Early Access and NDA overflow from 2018.41 thread

[SpudLime]

[Moderator note (bmah): The first 11 posts in this thread were moved from the software 2018.41 thread, along the lines of why Tesla owners in the Early Access Program should or shouldn't be posting their observations of unreleased firmware to TMC (or other public fora). That discussion is off-topic for a firmware thread]

Oh look people could care less about an NDA. unbelievable.

 

[SpudLime]

I am.

You do realize that you arnt supposed to be posting any of this right?

 

[NewTMSMan]

Oh look people could care less about an NDA. unbelievable.

Oh look another internet attorney talking about a non existent NDA.

 

[SpudLime]

Oh look another internet attorney talking about a non existent NDA.

Or...the term "NDA" is being used loosely to talk about the fact that when you are asked to join your are specifically asked to not post on the forums...reddit..etc..

Great argument. Ill do what I want because im legally not held responsible.

 

[croman]

Great argument. Ill do what I want because im legally not held responsible.

Its Elon's motto. You do NOT want to know where its inked on him.

 

[NewTMSMan]

Or...the term "NDA" is being used loosely to talk about the fact that when you are asked to join your are specifically asked to not post on the forums...reddit..etc..

Great argument. Ill do what I want because im legally not held responsible.

Well I am not sure where you are getting your information, but you start out chastising people for violating a non-existent NDA. Now you backtrack to “asked to join” and “specifically asked not to post on the forums”. Neither of these statements is true either. Want to have another go at it?

 

[SpudLime]

Well I am not sure where you are getting your information, but you start out chastising people for violating a non-existent NDA. Now you backtrack to “asked to join” and “specifically asked not to post on the forums”. Neither of these statements is true either. Want to have another go at it?

How do you figure? It has been posted numerous times about the invite email to the early access program and it specifically states to not post on the forums, reddit, facebook etc.. and to not have 3rd party software looking at your vehicle like Teslafi... This is exactly what an NDA is. By joining you are agreeing to NOT Disclose what you are testing. It also says if they find you you did not follow this you will be removed..

That being said, I find it humorous that folks would rather argue something else when in fact you know you are wrong to post anything from the EAP...

 

[Bladerskb]

How do you figure? It has been posted numerous times about the invite email to the early access program and it specifically states to not post on the forums, reddit, facebook etc.. and to not have 3rd party software looking at your vehicle like Teslafi... This is exactly what an NDA is. By joining you are agreeing to NOT Disclose what you are testing. It also says if they find you you did not follow this you will be removed..

That being said, I find it humorous that folks would rather argue something else when in fact you know you are wrong to post anything from the EAP...

That's not an NDA nor is it legally binding. An NDA makes it very clear and requires you to sign.

 

[SpudLime]

That's not an NDA nor is it legally binding. An NDA makes it very clear and requires you to sign.

Yes, we have gone over this already. NDA was being used loosely for now as I have no experience with the program to know if its legally binding or not.

Yet, no one is arguing the actual point where it says NOT to post this stuff. Anyone?

 

[croman]

Yes, we have gone over this already. NDA was being used loosely for now as I have no experience with the program to know if its legally binding or not.

Yet, no one is arguing the actual point where it says NOT to post this stuff. Anyone?

Actually this thread had no one arguing until you started arguing about things to which you candidly profess ignorance.

Suffice to say, I found the information illuminating and I wish the participants would continue unabated.

 

[SpudLime]

Actually this thread had no one arguing until you started arguing about things to which you candidly profess ignorance.

Suffice to say, I found the information illuminating and I wish the participants would continue unabated.

I as well as others use "NDA" as shorthand. Im not sure why you find that so difficult.

Heres NDA:
legal contract between at least two parties that outlines confidential material, knowledge, or information that the parties wish to share with one another for certain purposes, but wish to restrict access to or by third parties.

You can argue all you want that I used NDA incorrectly. That still doesnt change that its use was the intention of the "spirit" of what an NDA is for.

I think you need to look up the definition of ignorance:
Definition of IGNORANCE

lack of knowledge, education, or awareness


​

So back to the real issue.

From the email that was posted a few weeks back for the EA Program:

Before signing up, please review the following program rules:

• You must agree to keep your experiences in the program confidential.
• You may not share any information about this program with the public-e.g. posting on any forums, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, etc.
• You may not use any third party apps that access data from your vehicle-e.g. TeslaFi, ev-fw.com, etc.

 

[SpudLime]

[Moderator note (bmah): The first 11 posts in this thread were moved from the software 2018.41 thread, along the lines of why Tesla owners in the Early Access Program shouldn't be posting their observations of unreleased firmware to TMC (or other public fora).]

Oh look people could care less about an NDA. unbelievable.

@bmah Just to be clear, MODs dont feel they should be involved in enforcing the request by tesla to not post in forums for the EA program. But you DO want to be involved when its pointed out that they are in fact disobeying the request??! That could be inferred that you are INDEED promoting that folks disobey and post on the TMC forum.

That is an interesting censorship.

 

[bmah]

@bmah Just to be clear, MODs dont feel they should be involved in enforcing the request by tesla to not post in forums for the EA program. But you DO want to be involved when its pointed out that they are in fact disobeying the request??! That could be inferred that you are INDEED promoting that folks disobey and post on the TMC forum.

That is an interesting censorship.

No, no, and no. It's because that discussion was off-topic for the thread it was posted in. I'll add a clarification to the comment I put on the first post of the thread as a courtesy to explain what I was doing.

Bruce.

 

[SpudLime]

No, no, and no. It's because that discussion was off-topic for the thread it was posted in. I'll add a clarification to the comment I put on the first post of the thread as a courtesy to explain what I was doing.

Bruce.

Ok so if more EA program posts show up in the firmware section, I cant post that I disapprove of doing so?

How about I just post the bullet list of the agreement to remind folks and not say anything else? Because if you censor posts out voicing displeasure of folks doing that, its a bit unfair. If you disagree, then so be it.

 

[Bladerskb]

From the email that was posted a few weeks back for the EA Program:

Before signing up, please review the following program rules:

• You must agree to keep your experiences in the program confidential.
• You may not share any information about this program with the public-e.g. posting on any forums, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, etc.
• You may not use any third party apps that access data from your vehicle-e.g. TeslaFi, ev-fw.com, etc.

That's not an NDA. That is simply a request. Same as the trillions of requests made daily that billions of people dont adhere to.

 

[SpudLime]

That's not an NDA. That is simply a request. Same as the trillions of requests made daily that people dont oblige.

To which you think that is perfectly acceptable?

 

[Bladerskb]

To which you think that is perfectly acceptable?

Absolutely. Do you know how many requests you broke/didn't adhere to today alone?

 

[NewTMSMan]

How do you figure? It has been posted numerous times about the invite email to the early access program and it specifically states to not post on the forums, reddit, facebook etc.. and to not have 3rd party software looking at your vehicle like Teslafi... This is exactly what an NDA is. By joining you are agreeing to NOT Disclose what you are testing. It also says if they find you you did not follow this you will be removed..

That being said, I find it humorous that folks would rather argue something else when in fact you know you are wrong to post anything from the EAP...

I as well as others use "NDA" as shorthand. Im not sure why you find that so difficult.

Heres NDA:
legal contract between at least two parties that outlines confidential material, knowledge, or information that the parties wish to share with one another for certain purposes, but wish to restrict access to or by third parties.

You can argue all you want that I used NDA incorrectly. That still doesnt change that its use was the intention of the "spirit" of what an NDA is for.

I think you need to look up the definition of ignorance:
Definition of IGNORANCE

lack of knowledge, education, or awareness


​

So back to the real issue.

From the email that was posted a few weeks back for the EA Program:

Before signing up, please review the following program rules:

• You must agree to keep your experiences in the program confidential.
• You may not share any information about this program with the public-e.g. posting on any forums, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, etc.
• You may not use any third party apps that access data from your vehicle-e.g. TeslaFi, ev-fw.com, etc.

You continue to prove your ignorance of the topic. People in EAP are notified they are included. They neither apply, nor in any way agree to any terms on involvement. In addition the email notification simply requests you don’t post your experiences. It is a request, and in no way binding. Of course as capriciously as you are included you can be excluded by Tesla but there is never any agreement to any parficipation terms as you imply and surely no pro forma NDA as you try to keep referencing.

 

[NHK X]

Ok so if more EA program posts show up in the firmware section, I cant post that I disapprove of doing so?

How about I just post the bullet list of the agreement to remind folks and not say anything else? Because if you censor posts out voicing displeasure of folks doing that, its a bit unfair. If you disagree, then so be it.

It’s not sensorship, nothing has been deleted. Just moved to another thread for continued discussion and debate. It was the right call.

Most people go to the V9 thread to see what people’s thoughts are on the new features. Most don’t care to have an ethical debate on the NDA. For the small group of vocal members better to duke it out in a different thread. Makes perfect sense, it’s not censorship.

 

[NHK X]

Also it’s fine to offer your viewpoint on the NDA, but like any other online forum, don’t be surprised if people don’t flock to believe what you say.