East/West Solar vs South-Facing

[TheTalkingMule]

Installer got back to me and said my 43 x 13.5' roof with two skylights can only hold 14 south-facing panels in two rows as opposed to 20 east/west panels. I'm going to ask about the pricing and likely go with the east/west for more total output. These guys aren't trying to upsell me, I don't think they're simply charging a price per Watt and this is more profitable due to more W installed. Roof will be absolutely covered with panels so that's fun. Maybe even cooler in the summer.

 

[nwdiver]

Installer got back to me and said my 43 x 13.5' roof with two skylights can only hold 14 south-facing panels in two rows as opposed to 20 east/west panels. I'm going to ask about the pricing and likely go with the east/west for more total output. These guys aren't trying to upsell me, I don't think they're simply charging a price per Watt and this is more profitable due to more W installed. Roof will be absolutely covered with panels so that's fun. Maybe even cooler in the summer.

Is this really E/W vs S or E/W & S? Why can't you fill the S roof and add a few more E/W?

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Installer got back to me and said my 43 x 13.5' roof with two skylights can only hold 14 south-facing panels in two rows as opposed to 20 east/west panels. I'm going to ask about the pricing and likely go with the east/west for more total output. These guys aren't trying to upsell me, I don't think they're simply charging a price per Watt and this is more profitable due to more W installed. Roof will be absolutely covered with panels so that's fun. Maybe even cooler in the summer.

Are your rafters exposed? When i had solar installed, they were able to "sister" the rafters to increase the load capacity. I didn't know they were going to do that until they came out to install but it only took a few hours and I now have 16 panels on that part of the roof.

Ah. I guess I didn't have skylights as you do.

 

[SageBrush]

Hmm. Then why not put 14 panels on the south and more on either E or W co-incident with your demand ? It has not been mentioned whether the PV will be centralized or not but I know of at least one central inverter than can accept 3 strings.

Addendum: or you could choose a SolarEdge type installation with optimizers for even more design flexibility and less shade constraints.

 

[mspohr]

Is this really E/W vs S or E/W & S? Why can't you fill the S roof and add a few more E/W?

I think we all need to see a photo of the roof so us amateurs can "help" with the design. Are you willing to share a Google satellite view of the home?

 

[nwdiver]

I think we all need to see a photo of the roof so us amateurs can "help" with the design. Are you willing to share a Google satellite view of the home?

Technically no longer an 'amateur'

 

[mspohr]

Technically no longer an 'amateur'

Sorry, I didn't mean to forget you. We really appreciate your expertise.

 

[ai4px]

THe folks that installed our system guaranteed production of 21.5MW / year for 5 years or they would pay us the prevailing electric rate for the difference. I have heard horror stories from co-workers who used companies that sub’ed out the install... one such story is the salesman said he could fit so many panels on his roof w/o measuring. Deal done, papers signed... the installer crew shows up, says it won’t work due to fire access easements on the edges of the roof and installed the panels on the NORTH side of his roof. They buffaloed him by saying his roof was such a shallow pitch (4:12) that it would work any way. Now he’s paying for a system that isn’t producing and there’s a bunch of finger pointing going on between the two companies.
So: 1) make sure the shop doesn’t sub out the job, 2)get a guarantee on production. 3) make them show you the layout plan on your roof.
Also many companies charge $5/watt installed and do a lot of fluff for you like weather stripping on doors, insulation in attic, LED lights swapped in the house.... you can do all that yourself (or hire it done) for much cheaper. The going rate last year for solar in the South East USA was just under $3/watt installed. YMMV.

 

[nwdiver]

The going rate last year for solar in the South East USA was just under $3/watt installed. YMMV.

I think a fair rate is ~$2.5/w + $4k. That pencils out to $3/w @ 8kW. Mounting and wiring a 3kW inverter is about the same amount of work as a 8kW inverter. Racking 10kW of panels really isn't that many more man-hours than 5kW. Maybe ~50% more.. certainly not double. Smaller systems are gonna run a bit more than larger ones.

Still a few installers out there that think $5/w is fair. Have no idea why. The materials cost for our current project is ~$1/w! Labor ~$0.50/w. Charging $5/w poisons the market. The customers that reasonably balk walkaway with the false impression that solar is cost prohibitive instead of the true impression that someone tried to scam them....

 

[SageBrush]

The materials cost for our current project is ~$1/w! Labor ~$0.50/w.

I'm curious, what would you charge today if no federal tax credits were available ?

 

[nwdiver]

I'm curious, what would you charge today if no federal tax credits were available ?

Same. This is about as low as I can go unless we get more volume. We also have to pay for insurance and acquisition costs are terrible because of..... 'the nature' of my client pool.... Sad but true. If people were seeking us out like they should be I wouldn't have to waste >$8k on ads that go nowhere......

US solar companies spend >3x as much to get customers vs solar companies in Germany.... its frustraing. I would image that Germans don't have to waste time explaining to any of their customers how solar panels do not run out of electrons..... 'Merca.

I'm working on a new ad campaign since facts and reason aren't very effective these days.

 

[ai4px]

I think you hit the nail on the head.... I talk to people at work about solar and when I say 47000 I lose a few. I explain that all the used car sales gimmicks exist in solar... buy here pay here, no money down, good credit / bad credit etc.... I often advise folks to borrow from their 401k instead of the scammers and just pay cash. YMMV, you’ll be depriving yourself of the earnings on the 401k while your money is checked out, but it might be better than paying a scammy company’s interest rates.

One particular guy at work was quoted nearly 80,000 for a system and balked at it. He had given up with a bad taste after that first 80k quote! Over the next year he kept hearing me talk about it really working and he did his homework on the 2nd round and got a much better price for his 12kw system.... $3/watt. Of course it has rained a lot in the past couple of weeks here and I made sure to grill him for putting a whammy on all of us.... I told him thanks to him getting solar, it hasn’t rained this much since I bought my FJR1300.

 

[SageBrush]

acquisition costs are terrible because of..... 'the nature' of my client pool.... Sad but true.

That rings true. I have been to Lovington, and my locale is not much better.

It has taken over 3 years for the community solar group I volunteer with to reach a point where word of mouth advertising is enough to 'sell' a product that is a no-brainer, spear-headed by an EE who works for free.

 

[SageBrush]

I forgot to ask you @nwdiver
How much is your business affected by the local utility shenanigans ?

 

[nwdiver]

I forgot to ask you @nwdiver
How much is your business affected by the local utility shenanigans ?

None anymore. We fixed them