Elon & Twitter

[stopcrazypp]

The graph I posted is 2 quarters after Troy's, showing clearly things continue to increase in % market share.

That graph doesn't show the dips at all with the TTM removed. I would like to see Troy's updated graph that would show the given quarters as it is, which would make things more clear.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The most appropriate marketshare is total automotive marketshare, because in the end that's all that matters.

I have zero issue with this, but it doesn't take away from all the other points I made.

Tesla can continue to grow, but the lack of innovation is seriously going to hurt them in the long term.

Whether you acknowledge it or not Tesla is still betting big on FSD because if a car drives itself who cars if its the same box that everyone else has.

I think we can both agree that Tesla is very good at producing hundreds of thousands of the same thing.

 

[Electroman]

What? It’s true isn’t it?"
It may be true but it’s not Truth.

This is 100% true every time when main stream media uses pretty standard run of the mill tax breaks to tarnish Tesla and worse SpaceX. A future tax credit that is available to every large employer is somehow turned around to imply govt handout to Tesla. And worse SpaceX contracts that save tax payers billions are categorized as free money from govt.

And media has been doing this for years when it comes to Tesla and SpaceX .

As I said lying is an art. The leftist media has made it into a science. Fox should learn that and avoid getting caught. Russia collusion and Hunter laptop are good examples of large scale lying without getting caught.

 

[Electroman]

Tesla’s EV Market Share Is Dropping Fast

Tesla’s EV market share fell from 72 percent in January-February of 2022 to 58 percent in the same time this year. Now, 58 percent isn’t exactly anything to sneeze at, but it’s still a sizable drop.

The big reason for this dip is pretty simple: competition. Other automakers are putting out stronger EV offerings in a market that Tesla used to dominate. In January and February of 2022, AutoNews said Tesla had the nation’s three most popular EVs, and four models in the top 10. Since then, the Model S has fallen out of the top 10.

“Tesla’s longtime role as the only premium EV has shifted to one of many options, with additional EVs arriving in showrooms every month,” Karl Bauer, executive analyst at iSeeCars.com, told Automotive News.

Media is desperate desperate to somehow show Tesla is failing in the hope that the forced negative perception will snowball into reality.

Tesla is losing market share.
Tesla cars are too expensive
Tesla cars are too cheap, profits are gone
Competition is coming.
Bolt is a Tesla Killah. Mach-E is a Tesla killah. VWID is a Tesla Killah. Lucid is a Killah.
Tesla is a racist company. Musk is racist.
Competition is coming.
Tesla treats women badly. Musk is sexist.
Tesla cars kill people. Your family is not safe in a Tesla.
Competition is coming.
Tesla is going bankrupt.

Rinse repeat.

 

[advocate8]

This is 100% true every time when main stream media uses pretty standard run of the mill tax breaks to tarnish Tesla and worse SpaceX. A future tax credit that is available to every large employer is somehow turned around to imply govt handout to Tesla. And worse SpaceX contracts that save tax payers billions are categorized as free money from govt.

And media has been doing this for years when it comes to Tesla and SpaceX .

As I said lying is an art. The leftist media has made it into a science. Fox should learn that and avoid getting caught. Russia collusion and Hunter laptop are good examples of large scale lying without getting caught.

Whataboutism. Another rhetorical trick to avoid dealing with a clear fact.

 

[italian bread]

It's like you didn't even read the multiple posts explaining why discussing "EV market share" is dumb.

It's just vehicle market share.

A thing where Tesla keeps growing, and legacy auto keeps shrinking in relation.

Not to mention, the data you're citing is from early 2022... over a year older than the chart you (mistakenly) think it disagrees with.

This is ironic since you claim I didn’t read carefully and that the data is old. The information I quoted says:

Tesla’s EV market share fell from 72 percent in January-February of 2022 to 58 percent in the same time this year.

It is comparing data from 2022 (72%) with 2023 (58%). That’s what “same time this year” means, even if the article didn’t explicitly write 2023. So tell me if you actually read what I quoted or just skimmed it and picked up the year 2022 and rushed to respond? Hmmm?

 

[italian bread]

Media is desperate desperate to somehow show Tesla is failing in the hope that the forced negative perception will snowball into reality.

Tesla is losing market share.
Tesla cars are too expensive
Tesla cars are too cheap, profits are gone
Competition is coming.
Bolt is a Tesla Killah. Mach-E is a Tesla killah. VWID is a Tesla Killah. Lucid is a Killah.
Tesla is a racist company. Musk is racist.
Competition is coming.
Tesla treats women badly. Musk is sexist.
Tesla cars kill people. Your family is not safe in a Tesla.
Competition is coming.
Tesla is going bankrupt.

Rinse repeat.

You forgot anti-transgender.

 

[JRP3]

Tesla’s EV market share fell from 72 percent in January-February of 2022 to 58 percent in the same time this year.

You keep ignoring the point that "EV market share" is irrelevant. The market is vehicles, period. The "EV" segment is transitional and of course increasing. Since Tesla can't be and never intended to be the only EV producer of course it's share of that specific segment will shrink over time. When all vehicles are EV Tesla could have only 10% of the market and still be incredibly successful.

 

[italian bread]

You keep ignoring the point that "EV market share" is irrelevant. The market is vehicles, period. The "EV" segment is transitional and of course increasing. Since Tesla can't be and never intended to be the only EV producer of course it's share of that specific segment will shrink over time. When all vehicles are EV Tesla could have only 10% of the market and still be incredibly successful.

EV market share is definitively relevant since EVs are the only things Tesla sells (besides alcohol, shorts, flamethrowers, etc). Judging from all of the posts recently on the topic of market share (both EV and general), I’d conclude that Tesla is selling more vehicles than they have before (which is good for them) but competitors are definitely taking a slice of the market at Tesla’s expense.

I’m not anti-Tesla, but I do think their faults should be criticized because improvements will benefit everyone. Not only will their customers get better vehicles, but competing models will up their game as well. At the same time, I don’t like the way Musk acts at all and Twitter is a very public arena for people to see Musk as how and who he is.

As has been noted on this thread before, the world isn’t black or white, the situation is very nuanced. I’m not ignoring anything as you claim, but ignoring competition will definitely be a decrement. In the end, I want a thriving EV market with great cars. So for those here who think I’m just a Tesla hater, that’s very black or white thinking. It’s easy to do but it’s also very inaccurate.

 

[Knightshade]

EV market share is definitively relevant since EVs are the only things Tesla sells

No... VEHICLES is what Tesla sells.

(also a bunch of solar and energy products BTW)

Eventually, ALL vehicles will be EVs, so dicing it up as you suggest makes no sense.

Which is why looking at their share of the VEHICLE market is what's relevant.

That share keeps increasing

It's really that simple.

 

[JRP3]

EV market share is definitively relevant since EVs are the only things Tesla sells (besides alcohol, shorts, flamethrowers, etc). Judging from all of the posts recently on the topic of market share (both EV and general), I’d conclude that Tesla is selling more vehicles than they have before (which is good for them) but competitors are definitely taking a slice of the market at Tesla’s expense.

You seem incapable of grasping the concept due to your bias. Let me try another way. When Apple had 100% of the smartphone market did they suffer as other producers entered and "took" some of the market share, or did they continue to grow as smartphones took over the cellphone market? A smaller percentage of a growing market is still growth.

 

[Knightshade]

lack of innovation

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

WHY do you think Tesla is able to produce 7-figures worth of EVs right now, when car companies that have been around a century or more struggle to produce mere thousands of them?

 

[bkp_duke]

I have zero issue with this, but it doesn't take away from all the other points I made.

Tesla can continue to grow, but the lack of innovation is seriously going to hurt them in the long term.

Whether you acknowledge it or not Tesla is still betting big on FSD because if a car drives itself who cars if its the same box that everyone else has.

I think we can both agree that Tesla is very good at producing hundreds of thousands of the same thing.

Lack of innovation? You live in the same universe as the rest of us? No other automakers can STILL do full remove OTA upgrades (a handful can do limited, but things like battery firmware and motor firmware still require an in-person visit).


Manufacturing, did you see the Investor Day presentation? Not even going to go into Tesla's next-gen process for building a car presented there. CURRENT gen, only one other company in the world has even started building with gigacasts. Tesla also takes 1/2 the time and man hours to build a car as Toyota or VW (the number 2 and 3 positions).

Do you even have FSD?

 

[Tiger]

I'll politely disagree.

DNA is a set of blueprints for making protein sequences for cells. DNA doesn't think. It isn't an algorithm.

Brain cell network connection and strengths trained on a lifetime of input data is what our minds are. Saying DNA is an algorithm is like saying silicon gate blueprints are AI. You can build a neural net with the gates, but it's the billions-of-training-sets that make the "algorithm".

It is an algorithm in the sense that it seeks survival of the fittest (or effectively so).

 

[italian bread]

You seem incapable of grasping the concept due to your bias. Let me try another way. When Apple had 100% of the smartphone market did they suffer as other producers entered and "took" some of the market share, or did they continue to grow as smartphones took over the cellphone market? A smaller percentage of a growing market is still growth.

Sadly, you do not understand what I mean when I said that Tesla is growing AND competitors are taking a slice of the market from them. It is NOT all or nothing. For your comparison with Apple... Did Apple suffer? If by suffering you mean they sold less than they would have if they were in the only smartphone game in town? Then the answer is YES. If by suffering do you mean Apple is going to bankruptcy? Then the answer is NO.

I don't understand what is so difficult about the notion that Tesla can be growing their market share of general vehicles and still be losing ground when looking at the EV market only. It's like saying Apple is selling more phones than ever before but their share of the smartphone-only market is being chipped away by high-end android phones. The answer can be YES to both questions.

 

[JRP3]

I don't understand what is so difficult about the notion that Tesla can be growing their market share of general vehicles and still be losing ground when looking at the EV market only. It's like saying Apple is selling more phones than ever before but their share of the smartphone-only market is being chipped away by high-end android phones. The answer can be YES to both questions.

That's the point, the answer is yes to both questions but one of the questions is irrelevant, unless you foolishly though Tesla would be the only company ever selling EV's.

 

[italian bread]

A smaller percentage of a growing market is still growth.

I never said Tesla wasn't growing. Please show me where you think I said so and perhaps we can clear it up.

 

[italian bread]

That's the point, the answer is yes to both questions but one of the questions is irrelevant, unless you foolishly though Tesla would be the only company ever selling EV's.

It's a question. There's an answer. It's that simple and it's not irrelevant. Please don't insult me by suggesting I'm foolish and then implying I thought Tesla would be the only game in town forever when I did not say that. I said because they're not the only game in town now, and because there are serious competitors now, it will, just like Android and iOS, affect Apple's / Tesla's business compared to if there was no Android / Legacy EVs as it was initially.

 

[JRP3]

I give up

 

[bkp_duke]

I give up

Horse . . . water thing?