Elon wins... we all win....

[Uncle Paul]

Governments promote the flu shots, just as they do trying to force people to stay in their own homes. It takes the pressure off hospitals and medical professionals.

If the flu shots prevent 30% of the infections it is doing it's job. Never going to make the flu go totally away. It mutates too fast for the vaccine manufactures to cope.

 

[Tam]

Elon Musk's Act of Civil Disobedience Pays Off, as California Health Officials Back Down | Dan Sanchez

Musk won back a measure of freedom by peacefully asserting his rights. Will others follow his lead?

Yesterday evening, Alameda County health officials backed down in their conflict with Elon Musk, reversing their shutdown order and granting provisional approval for Tesla's Fremont, California plant to reopen.​

No! Not everyone.

A well-capitalized company, that has lots of resources including lawyers, had to break up the negotiation with the county in order to commit lawlessness is not a win for everyone who lives in a civilized society.

Not only Tesla violated the health order but also while it did file its lawsuit, it has no intention to respect the Federal court because it did not wait for the court to give it an injunctive relief. Tesla public exhibition shows that it's above both the law and the court.

So far, this kind of public rampage and lawlessness have cost SpaceX $655,500 in state job and training funds.

"The hardball tactics seem to have worked for Tesla. Officials from Alameda County, where the carmaker has its factory, issued statements this week calling talks with the company productive and saying that it could ramp up activity.

"He defies them at every turn and he gets his way again," Rome Aloise, president of the Teamsters union's council covering northern California, said in an interview Wednesday. "Why should we be subsidizing him on any level -- SpaceX or Tesla?"

 

[Uncle Paul]

Interesting points.

Tesla took Alameda to court, not because they were above the law, but because they felt that health department acted against the Constitution when they decided themselves which business were essential and which had to shut down. The taking of his company was done in an illegal and un Constitutional way (He won)

If Elon feels his legitimate legal actions are causing California to deny his company $655,500 in state job and training funds, then I imagine he will pack up Space X and move that to Nevada/Texas as well.

California only gives incentives to Space X and Tesla because they need to do that to remain competitive with other states offerings. They do this because they are bleeding high paying manufacturing jobs, plus the even higher paying technical and managerial jobs.

Teamsters union's should not be complaining about people going to court to get their rights, or using intimidation to get the attention of their adversaries. They have a long history of exactly these types of negotations to keep their people employed.

 

[Killroy]

No! Not everyone.

A well-capitalized company, that has lots of resources including lawyers, had to break up the negotiation with the county in order to commit lawlessness is not a win for everyone who lives in a civilized society.

Not only Tesla violated the health order but also while it did file its lawsuit, it has no intention to respect the Federal court because it did not wait for the court to give it an injunctive relief. Tesla public exhibition shows that it's above both the law and the court.

So far, this kind of public rampage and lawlessness have cost SpaceX $655,500 in state job and training funds.

"The hardball tactics seem to have worked for Tesla. Officials from Alameda County, where the carmaker has its factory, issued statements this week calling talks with the company productive and saying that it could ramp up activity.

"He defies them at every turn and he gets his way again," Rome Aloise, president of the Teamsters union's council covering northern California, said in an interview Wednesday. "Why should we be subsidizing him on any level -- SpaceX or Tesla?"

Like a other commenter said, the lawsuit was about Alameda not having the authority to shut down Tesla. Here are details:

About the actions costing Tesla money:
Its probably better that Tesla and SpaceX making money by selling cars and launches to space then state subsidies. One way to look at it is that ever day Tesla opens early is $55 Milion in earnings, so the legal action breaks even after a number of days.

 

[ACA Man]

It's very odd to see someone so happy that innocent people are being put at risk unnecessarily so a billionaire can make a few more dollars they don't need... Yes, lets champion ignorance and blind loyalty, that'll get us where we need to go long term...

Jeff

Ditto.

 

[jboy210]

Will see more of this.

Wisconsin Supreme Court just ruled that the Governor did not have the right to pick and choose which companies were essential and which were not. Was not legal to not apply restrictions to some favored businesses, but restrict those deemed by the Governor as non-essential. Never described what the criteria was for being exempt or not.

Compared it to putting Japaneese into interment camps during WWII just because of their appearance, while other US Citizens were allowed to walk around freely.

Congress has been also guilty of choosing who can get taxpayer money and who are shut out. Money was supposed to go to small businesses to maintain their employees. Ended up going to well connected large corporations and favored fine arts theaters. Corruption at the highest levels of Congress.

I applaud Elon for his decision to challenge what may end up being very illegal proclamations.

In Asia I often see people walking around wearing masks. They do so when they are ill or to protect from pollution. Never saw them imprisoned or impose a large fine if they choose not to wear them.

On the other hand, I recognize this is a challenging situation and mostly remain at home and wear a mask when outside or near others.

The Wisconsin Supreme Count was full of sh**^t for comparing these minor restrictions to the Japanese Internment. My parents, grandparents, and cousins were all in internment camps just for being from the wrong racial group. Closing a business in a time of a epidemic is nothing like this. Did they give those business owners 24 hours to pack up are their belongings into one suitcase and sell their home and business? Did they put them on buses and take them to desert hundreds of miles away? Did they put them in camps sleeping 6 families per barrack with a blanket for wall dividers. And surround them with barbed wire, searchlights, and armed guard towers to control this virus?

Likening not being able to go to bar as the same as that is BULLSH&%^T. And to make the comparison worse, people like my father and his friends volunteered to fight and die for this country as part of the 442nd regiment, one of the most decorated units in WW2. My dad and friends got shot at and died all the way from Italy to Germany. His medals are a constant reminder to me that freedom is not free! And shared sacrifice for the good of all is the cost of living the great lives we have in the USA.

 

[Earthpower]

Musk may be a brilliant engineer but he knows squat about public health as do those who believe the lockdowns violate rights. Read The Great Influenza about the 1918 pandemic. Despite our advanced science 100 years later, we're making the same mistakes because too many people are ignoring or defying the science. I want Tesla to succeed but Musk's ignorance is a very bad sign. IMHO

 

[Ostrichsak]

Musk may be a brilliant engineer but he knows squat about public health as do those who believe the lockdowns violate rights. Read The Great Influenza about the 1918 pandemic. Despite our advanced science 100 years later, we're making the same mistakes because too many people are ignoring or defying the science. I want Tesla to succeed but Musk's ignorance is a very bad sign. IMHO

Please show me the science that puts this anywhere near the pandemic of 1918.

 

[yerEVan]

Please show me the science that puts this anywhere near the pandemic of 1918.

I don’t think he’s comparing statistics necessarily to 1918, i.e. death toll, etc. but ignorance to science and common sense. I agree, Elon is saying things that are staunchly against science in regards to health and biology, which are two things he is NOT an expert in. Love his passion and tenacity with building cars and the challenge of making solar a viable source of energy, but when you have a strong public figure defying science/health, it carries a lot of weight with people that are Elon-all-the-way-no-matter-what-you-say type of folk.

I feel that to be dangerous and reckless honestly. But who am I? Nobody,

 

[Ostrichsak]

I don’t think he’s comparing statistics necessarily to 1918, i.e. death toll, etc. but ignorance to science and common sense. I agree, Elon is saying things that are staunchly against science in regards to health and biology, which are two things he is NOT an expert in. Love his passion and tenacity with building cars and the challenge of making solar a viable source of energy, but when you have a strong public figure defying science/health, it carries a lot of weight with people that are Elon-all-the-way-no-matter-what-you-say type of folk.

I feel that to be dangerous and reckless honestly. But who am I? Nobody,

But how can you compare something without statistics? People keep saying how scary it is & I've seen nothing that puts it even in the same territory as influenza let alone the pandemic of 1918. Forcing the surrender of our constitutionally protected rights on a whim is wrong no matter how you slice it. People say those who aren't pro eternal & warrantless quarantine are anti-science also don't seem to have any solid science to produce backing this stance. So how are others anti-science if there isn't any?


The Constitution is meant to be a guiding light during troubled times rather than something we use when everything is going fine. If the first thing we do when a few people are afraid is wipe our ass with the Constitution... Well... What's the point?

I'm not willing to surrender my constitutionally protected rights so you can feel safer from something that isn't even much of a threat... Statistically speaking. If that's the case then the government should be enforcing these measures at all times to protect us from.... Whatever. Slippery slope.

 

[Tam]

...I've seen nothing that puts it even in the same territory as influenza let alone the pandemic of 1918...

Influenza takes a whole year to kill and does not overwhelm the US system all at once. That means grave diggers don't have to hurry up to dig multiple-stacked coffin mass grave during the influenza time.

This was what happened in New York with Covid-19:

The difference is although Covid-19 circulates the community silently with not much of a threat to see.

However, once it picks up enough numbers of infected people, the speed of its killing really speeds up.

Let's review US Covid-19 speed of how many days before it can double up:

3/17/2020: 110 deaths
2 days later: 3/19/2020: 209 deaths
3 days later: 3/22/2020: 414 deaths
3 days later: 3/25/2020: 1,027 deaths
3 days later: 3/28/2020: 2,200 deaths
3 days later: 3/31/2020: 4,053 deaths
4 days later: 4/4/2020: 8,452 deaths
5 days later: 4/9/2020: 16,691 deaths
6 days later: 4/15/2020: 32,443 deaths
16 days later: 5/01/2020: 65,753 deaths
Currently, 20 days later, 5/21/2022: 96,354 which is not double up from the 64,000 mark yet, which means it has slowed down but that's a lot of dead people for just 20 days from the last doubling up marking.

With influenza, I've never heard about:

Dire Situation In Alabama Capital: ICUs Full, Coronavirus Cases Double In May

It is not scary to many people because they are not among the ones who die.

An Anti-lockdown man in Ohio posted that he was not scared because it didn't happen to him just yet but unfortunately, he died of Covid-19. His wife issued the statement:

"We know if John was still here with us he would acknowledge the national crisis we are in, abide by the stay-at-home order, and encourage family and friends to do the same...But sadly he is not with us and we will forever have to live and cope with how his life ended far too soon."

Texas didn't force the church to close down and no one was scared at that time so the Priest continued the public masses.

Unfortunately, the priest died and infected others and the Catholic church decided to shut down the public masses.

Many are not scared because they don't have to respond to a "code blue" (cardiac arrest) to resuscitate a Covid-19 patient then they themselves would die of Covid-19 14 days later for being a "hero".

No, I have never heard any nurse would die because of responding to a code blue from an influenza patient!

Be kind to one another. Just because it doesn't affect me, that doesn't mean I should not care.

These deaths are not just numbers: They are real human beings and that's why we should do everything to avoid killing them.

It's not that hard. Other countries have done it: China locked down for 76 days and it's over.

Unlike the US, Taiwan never abandoned its anti-pandemic team and the result really shows: 441 infections, 7 deaths!

 

[SSedan]

The Wisconsin Supreme Count was full of sh**^t for comparing these minor restrictions to the Japanese Internment. My parents, grandparents, and cousins were all in internment camps just for being from the wrong racial group. Closing a business in a time of a epidemic is nothing like this. Did they give those business owners 24 hours to pack up are their belongings into one suitcase and sell their home and business? Did they put them on buses and take them to desert hundreds of miles away? Did they put them in camps sleeping 6 families per barrack with a blanket for wall dividers. And surround them with barbed wire, searchlights, and armed guard towers to control this virus?

Likening not being able to go to bar as the same as that is BULLSH&%^T. And to make the comparison worse, people like my father and his friends volunteered to fight and die for this country as part of the 442nd regiment, one of the most decorated units in WW2. My dad and friends got shot at and died all the way from Italy to Germany. His medals are a constant reminder to me that freedom is not free! And shared sacrifice for the good of all is the cost of living the great lives we have in the USA.

What happened to your family is aweful and should not have been done.

That said, Wisconsin has been pretty lightly hit with this. Milwaukee, Madison and a meat plant cluster in Green Bay does not warrant locking down the whole state Evers knows it, that is why he stopped fighting.

On the "science" end of things, science tells us that this hits people over 65 the hardest. Look at the policies of sending positive patients back to nursing homes in NY, NJ, PA, IL, MN. That is where the numbers are coming from.
Since the governor's of those states have the right initial next to their name though we aren't allowed to admit obvious policy flaws causing the problem.

Fact is the states opening up are not seeing spikes, it is not the 20-60yo workforce that will overwhelm the hospitals.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Influenza takes a whole year to kill and does not overwhelm the US system all at once. That means grave diggers don't have to hurry up to dig multiple-stacked coffin mass grave during the influenza time.

This was what happened in New York with Covid-19:

The difference is although Covid-19 circulates the community silently with not much of a threat to see.

However, once it picks up enough numbers of infected people, the speed of its killing really speeds up.

Let's review US Covid-19 speed of how many days before it can double up:

3/17/2020: 110 deaths
2 days later: 3/19/2020: 209 deaths
3 days later: 3/22/2020: 414 deaths
3 days later: 3/25/2020: 1,027 deaths
3 days later: 3/28/2020: 2,200 deaths
3 days later: 3/31/2020: 4,053 deaths
4 days later: 4/4/2020: 8,452 deaths
5 days later: 4/9/2020: 16,691 deaths
6 days later: 4/15/2020: 32,443 deaths
16 days later: 5/01/2020: 65,753 deaths
Currently, 20 days later, 5/21/2022: 96,354 which is not double up from the 64,000 mark yet, which means it has slowed down but that's a lot of dead people for just 20 days from the last doubling up marking.

With influenza, I've never heard about:

Dire Situation In Alabama Capital: ICUs Full, Coronavirus Cases Double In May

It is not scary to many people because they are not among the ones who die.

An Anti-lockdown man in Ohio posted that he was not scared because it didn't happen to him just yet but unfortunately, he died of Covid-19. His wife issued the statement:

"We know if John was still here with us he would acknowledge the national crisis we are in, abide by the stay-at-home order, and encourage family and friends to do the same...But sadly he is not with us and we will forever have to live and cope with how his life ended far too soon."

Texas didn't force the church to close down and no one was scared at that time so the Priest continued the public masses.

Unfortunately, the priest died and infected others and the Catholic church decided to shut down the public masses.

Many are not scared because they don't have to respond to a "code blue" (cardiac arrest) to resuscitate a Covid-19 patient then they themselves would die of Covid-19 14 days later for being a "hero".

No, I have never heard any nurse would die because of responding to a code blue from an influenza patient!

Be kind to one another. Just because it doesn't affect me, that doesn't mean I should not care.

These deaths are not just numbers: They are real human beings and that's why we should do everything to avoid killing them.

It's not that hard. Other countries have done it: China locked down for 76 days and it's over.

Unlike the US, Taiwan never abandoned its anti-pandemic team and the result really shows: 441 infections, 7 deaths!

This is great info and all but it still doesn't hold a candle to the pandemic of 1918. this sort of hyperbole is ridiculous in today's conversations about important topics akin to people comparing everybody to Nazis and Adolf Hitler. Crash again it looks like Your example is an outlier case of a major metropolitan area with the highest population density in the country. If anything, It seems as though the local bureaucrats should enact some sort of quarantine to protect their citizens that are susceptible at a much higher rate due to their incredibly high population density. Instead we're stripped of our rights at the highest levels with little to no supporting data for such an extreme decision. Restricting the rights of EVERYONE because "safety" in the face of no supporting data is wrong.

 

[Killroy]

Musk may be a brilliant engineer but he knows squat about public health as do those who believe the lockdowns violate rights. Read The Great Influenza about the 1918 pandemic. Despite our advanced science 100 years later, we're making the same mistakes because too many people are ignoring or defying the science. I want Tesla to succeed but Musk's ignorance is a very bad sign. IMHO

Where did Musk deny science?

Musk does have data on his casting plant 30 miles away from Fremont that has been operating this whole SIP. Tesla says there are no issues. Shanghai has also been mostly open for SIP in the US. China was able to stop the spread of the virus in its country, so there are lessons to be learned from that region.

 

[Tam]

...Your example is an outlier case...

That's how Covid-19 works. Most people don't die from it. Only a very small percentage do. That's why many people are not scared and think they would be the ones among the very unfortunate small percentage.

Small percentage for Covid-19 does not mean very few people: It means 97,647 US deaths in just 83 days since the first death on 2/29/2020.

...a major metropolitan area with the highest population density in the country...

That's how Covid-19 works! The bigger a crowd is the more it can kill.

If the kill rate is 1% then a crowd of 1 has a death of 0.01%. Crowd of 100 = 1 death. Crowd of 1,000=10 deaths...

That's how it killed 97,647 people in the US so far!

...Instead we're stripped of our rights at the highest levels with little to no supporting data for such an extreme decision. Restricting the rights of EVERYONE because "safety" in the face of no supporting data is wrong.

The supporting data is clear:

China locked Wuhan down for 76 days and it's over: 82,971 infected 4,634 killed

South Korea: 11,165 infected, 266 killed

Taiwan: 411 infected, 7 killed

Hawaii has been arresting visitors who couldn't patiently wait for a 14-day self quarantine to be over:

New York tourist arrested in Hawaii for violating local quarantine rule

Reseda man arrested for violation of Hawaii quarantine after social media posts

2 women visiting Hawaii arrested after allegedly violating quarantine

and it has the lowest Covid-19 death rate in the US: 12 deaths per 1 million population (New York has highest 1,491 per 1 million population)

 

[Tam]

...Where did Musk deny science?...

Musk:"There is considerable conflation of diagnosis & contraction of “corona”. Actual virality is much lower than it would seem. I think this will turn out to be comparable to other forms of influenza. World War Z it is not."


Trump:"So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!"


Science: The first US Covid-19 death was on 2/29/2020, in just 83 days later, not a whole year, 97,647 deaths.


Musk:"Maybe worth considering chloroquine for C19"


Trump:"What do you have to lose?"


Science: Antimalarial drug touted by President Trump is linked to increased risk of death in coronavirus patients, study says

"Lancet: For those given hydroxychloroquine, there was a 34 percent increase in risk of mortality and a 137 percent increased risk of a serious heart arrhythmias. For those receiving hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic — the cocktail endorsed by Trump — there was a 45 percent increased risk of death and a 411 percent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias.

Those given chloroquine had a 37 percent increased risk of death and a 256 percent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias. For those taking chloroquine and an antibiotic, there was a 37 percent increased risk of death and a 301 percent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias."

The largest study so far comprised of 96,032 patients from 671 hospitals in six continents.

Musk:"Based on current trends, probably close to zero new cases in US too by end of April"


Trump:"Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now."

Science: Daily new cases on 4/30/2020= 30,829. On 5/1/2020, daily new cases = 36,007

 

[drtimhill]

At what point is the "cure" more dangerous than the disease?

Dan

The answer in this case, of course, is "no one knows". Seriously, we dont. Pretty much everything is speculation, which, sadly, becomes opinion, and then, even more sadly, propaganda. We've had 5G cell towers blamed for the virus, and burned down (in several cases, they weren't even 5G). We've had denial. We've had hysteria. We've had crackpots come out of the woodwork and claim everything from the end of the world to a grand conspiracy. Miracle (literally, in some cases) cures that are actually dangerous (drinking bleach anyone?).

Hardly humanities finest hour.

 

[Killroy]

Musk:"There is considerable conflation of diagnosis & contraction of “corona”. Actual virality is much lower than it would seem. I think this will turn out to be comparable to other forms of influenza. World War Z it is not."


Trump:"So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!"


Science: The first US Covid-19 death was on 2/29/2020, in just 83 days later, not a whole year, 97,647 deaths.


Musk:"Maybe worth considering chloroquine for C19"


Trump:"What do you have to lose?"


Science: Antimalarial drug touted by President Trump is linked to increased risk of death in coronavirus patients, study says

"Lancet: For those given hydroxychloroquine, there was a 34 percent increase in risk of mortality and a 137 percent increased risk of a serious heart arrhythmias. For those receiving hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic — the cocktail endorsed by Trump — there was a 45 percent increased risk of death and a 411 percent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias.

Those given chloroquine had a 37 percent increased risk of death and a 256 percent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias. For those taking chloroquine and an antibiotic, there was a 37 percent increased risk of death and a 301 percent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias."

The largest study so far comprised of 96,032 patients from 671 hospitals in six continents.

Musk:"Based on current trends, probably close to zero new cases in US too by end of April"


Trump:"Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now."

Science: Daily new cases on 4/30/2020= 30,829. On 5/1/2020, daily new cases = 36,007

View attachment 544033

Yeah, that is not denying science. Hydroxychloroquine and other treatment drugs should be considered. We now know that hydroxychloroquine is not a good idea. Hindsight will be 20-20 on this thing. Some "science" has been released like a the Stanford anti body test was flawed, but the conclusion was that many more have been infected and the death rate was approaching the flu. Now the results were not peer reviewed, so people were believing the false conclusion.

 

[Ostrichsak]

That's how Covid-19 works. Most people don't die from it. Only a very small percentage do. That's why many people are not scared and think they would be the ones among the very unfortunate small percentage.

Small percentage for Covid-19 does not mean very few people: It means 97,647 US deaths in just 83 days since the first death on 2/29/2020.



That's how Covid-19 works! The bigger a crowd is the more it can kill.

If the kill rate is 1% then a crowd of 1 has a death of 0.01%. Crowd of 100 = 1 death. Crowd of 1,000=10 deaths...

That's how it killed 97,647 people in the US so far!



The supporting data is clear:

China locked Wuhan down for 76 days and it's over: 82,971 infected 4,634 killed

South Korea: 11,165 infected, 266 killed

Taiwan: 411 infected, 7 killed

Hawaii has been arresting visitors who couldn't patiently wait for a 14-day self quarantine to be over:

New York tourist arrested in Hawaii for violating local quarantine rule

Reseda man arrested for violation of Hawaii quarantine after social media posts

2 women visiting Hawaii arrested after allegedly violating quarantine

and it has the lowest Covid-19 death rate in the US: 12 deaths per 1 million population (New York has highest 1,491 per 1 million population)

So we remove the freedoms of everyone to protect the alleged safety of a few? Seems very... unamerican to me.

Those numbers seem high until you compare them to all other causes of death during the same time period the previous year. It's a lot like saying "we could close one lane of traffic for workers to repair an interstate but... in the name of safety lets just close the entire thing down anytime anyone needs to do some maintenance to the highway. If mowing operations are happening on the side we just close down the entire interstate for that one person to be ever-so-slightly safer because... is not one life worth such a sacrifice?" No is the answer. We do stuff every day that's inherently dangerous but we accept this because the numbers are so low and the trade-off makes our lives much better. What's next? We shut down highways entirely to keep everyone safe? That's basically what we've done here because of one dangerous stretch of highway where a few people tragically died. So while the figure out how to fix that one dangerous section with obvious safety and undeniable safety issues we're just going to shut down every highway and roadway in the nation until further notice. Do you not see how some may not take kindly to this?

People say that anyone is denying science who doesn't support this and this is false by the very definition of what science is. None of this data has gone through the scientific process to prove it out and exists only as a loose theory at this point. Show me hard scientific data that has been peer-reviewed and I will support the data and then we can continue to debate the merits of a compulsory lock-down nationwide based on the real scientific data.

All of these stats are cooked since hospitals were being threatened with bankruptcy since people weren't out doing dumb crap to end up in their emergency rooms. They saw a lifeline in the form of federal relief dollars and all they had to do was check one little box for a patient: cough, difficulty breathing or fever. Regardless of if the patient was tested for the virus or not... Bam! $8k give or take. This repeated for each case. So you take an admin who is faced with laying off long-time employees and good doctors because they can't make ends meet and show them this and the results have been obvious. An unintended consequence has resulted in our numbers being skewed since people who had a cough, shortness of breath or a fever before dying (most people do unless it's a sudden death caused by accident) they were ruled COVID19 since it got the hospital extra federal relief dollars.

I was pretty neutral to this early on until we had more data but now that the "data" has emerged and we're seeing that the books have been cooked and this is likely not even a drop in the bucket compared to other viral contagions over the same time period last year and we're all being stripped of our freedoms for what? If people want to voluntarily wear masks and self-quarantine, fine. I support you. I don't have to believe in what you're doing to respect your motivations for doing it. Where I draw the line where ALL Americans are being forced to comply with this. The Constitution was put into place to protect our freedoms during times exactly like this. It's not there when all is well and we don't need something reminding us how to be free. It's there when everyone is in a panic and we need a lighthouse in the dark night to guide us safely to shore. Instead, we've become awful comfortable with chucking the thing out the window at the first sign of the slightest change to "normal" and it's alarming. We've become a nation of Sallys and hypochondriacs who are afraid of everything and would be lost without our beloved government to protect us from the proverbial boogie men of the world.

This is NOT the reason our government was created. Life is dangerous. Even though we take reasonable precautions to delay the inevitable we're all going to die eventually. Is life worth living if you spend it's entirety in a bubble not interacting with others or not getting out to see the world or even being able to buy a burger w/o wearing a mask if the urge strikes you? A lot of people better than you or I fought and died to preserve our freedom and this fragile thing we call a democratic society. We're not honoring that sacrifice by fearing every little thing that goes bump in the night so much so that we cripple our society in every imaginable way like a bunch of cowards. the government has no right to lock us all up and shut down businesses that they deem unimportant and the more and more real data that comes out we learn that they've overreacted and are way overstepping their bounds of duty on this one. Cash & power grabs of epic proportions have occurred in a moment and it's amazing to me how many people are quick to forgive so long as the .gov protects them and keeps them safe from any and all threats to include something that they make up tomorrow to push the fear needle even further.

It's rare that I say this but: I side with Elon on this topic.

 

[Tam]

So we remove the freedoms of everyone to protect the alleged safety of a few? Seems very... unamerican to me.

In a civilized society, we have technology and laws not just to protect the majority and those who are capable of “survival of the fittest” but also to the few, the minority, the weak, the young, the old…

We also care about others even though things don’t seem to affect us such as a fictional story that in the old days, a village would select only one teenage virgin to sacrifice to the Tsunami God annually. Those who have only sons might not be bothered but others might think it’s cruel so they develop an advanced tsunami alert system so no one, boys or girls, not even a minority of one, would have to be sacrificed every year.

It's a lot like saying "we could close one lane of traffic for workers to repair an interstate but... in the name of safety lets just close the entire thing down anytime anyone needs to do some maintenance to the highway.

Remember, the virus is called “novel” which means new with insufficient data and knowledge.

It’s like the sky was sunny and clear then suddenly the fog came in with zero visibility on the freeway. Cars were still driving and there would be mass casualties that overwhelmed the first responders.

That’s only happened to a fraction of the accidents in the US but why shut the road down?

That’s emergency and the road was proactively closed to make sure firstresponders can deal with the existing problems first.

And people might wonder why a clear road was shut down after that event? That’s because the weather might predict that fog not only affects one existing incidence but it might spread to the next one.

And that’s what happened when there was Covid-19 in China. Other countries didn’t wait until it arrived on their land such Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam…

Remember, Taiwan never shut down its economy and crowded businesses including childcare, schools, restaurants…

It sent its scientists to Wuhan when it first heard about it while the US recalled the embedded CDC in China. It downloaded China’s web posting of the genome sequence on 1/11/2020 and started creating Covid-19 test kits while the US downplayed the severity.

The result: There’s no shortage of PPE, test kits in Taiwan and it’s the opposite in the US.

Remember again: Taiwan didn’t close down its economy but the US did because the US has been playing down the threat and didn’t want to prepare for it.

Closing down the economy is not a sign of good preparedness but the opposite: It’s reactive, not proactive because closing down is necessary to prevent overwhelming the US unprepared system that didn't activate the anti-pandemic team in action with testing kits, PPE, ready.

All of these stats are cooked since hospitals were being threatened with bankruptcy since people weren't out doing dumb crap to end up in their emergency rooms. They saw a lifeline in the form of federal relief dollars and all they had to do was check one little box for a patient: cough, difficulty breathing or fever. Regardless of if the patient was tested for the virus or not... Bam! $8k give or take.

That conspiracy theory is not explainable in the case in Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, or other poorer countries that do not have resources to high Covid-19 death numbers worldwide.

In Brazil, the President says "it's a little flu" so there is absolutely no incentives for him to inflate his infection rate to number 2 behind the US.