Yeah, I estimate by using the SMMT data for "other" and removing 65 per month since the "other" category has more than just Tesla's. That method means 267 in Q4 with a total of 741 for 2014.
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Yeah, I estimate by using the SMMT data for "other" and removing 65 per month since the "other" category has more than just Tesla's. That method means 267 in Q4 with a total of 741 for 2014.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
If Greece defaults and exits the EU/Euro then the Greek economy implodes without access to credit.
Italy,Spain and Portugal will not go rushing to follow Syriza's example.
As noted before Greece is 2% of the EU economy. Its weight is not earth moving.
Italy,Spain and Portugal will not go rushing to follow Syriza's example.
As noted before Greece is 2% of the EU economy. Its weight is not earth moving.
Correct. I used SMMT data for 2014, substracting 2013+10% to cover non-Model S imports because I wasn't aware about the other link. I just redid the graph with the actual numbers for the UK but it's barely different so I don't think it is worthwhile to post again for now, but I certainly intend to revisit this exercise after 2015Q1.
The Blue Owl
Endangerous Herbivore
Who knows, it might be, if they default but emerge stronger in a few years by bootstrapping themselves out of the hole they're in. Controlling their own currency would allow them to do things that are impossible under the current bondage-and-discipline approach to macroeconomics imposed by their creditors.
I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, an agreement is an agreement, as the Germans put it. On the other hand, you should be able to break a contract if you are willing to face the music. For all the talk about moral hazard that is used to justify EU's approach to heavily indebted Greece, I hear no talk about the moral hazard of creditors who were happy to give risky loans because they figured they'd always be made whole.
I think the impact of Grexit on financial markets and the economy will almost certainly be disproportionately higher than their contribution to the European GDP would lead you to believe.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Not necessarily; other countries have done this before and survived. Exiting the Euro obviously means reintroducing the Drachma BUT it could then be devalued with the positive consequences regarding debt reduction and a haircut for the lenders.
If Syriza successfully finds a way to get debts written off (i.e. lessen the Greek pain) there's plenty of incentive for other countries to follow suit.
The percentage of EU economy is not material, the absolute debt level held by a relatively narrow field of banks is. Ask the German taxpayers how they feel about writing off say half the money they loaned Greece....whether it's even politically palatable to ask is dubious. Political uncertainty leads to market jitters, although I think there's a relative calmness so far while everyone digests the news and waits to see what happens next.
Agree with you that Greece, if left to its own resources, is likely to recover.
On the other side, my impression is that Greek, Italian, Portugese and all other Eu citizens would much rather stay in the Union that leave it. That Union does not make much sense, yet the political will keeps it alive. Other countries may be much less willing than Greece to trade off the prized union membership for bankruptcy.
NigelM
Recovering Member
I have been to Greece many times and still have very good friends there. FWIW my view is that the Greeks want to stay in the EU but have an over-riding desire for better economic conditions right now. If they defaulted and/or withdrew from the Euro they wouldn't necessarily have to leave the EU and I think it's unlikely that the remaining markets would ever insist on throwing Greece out.
sundaymorning
Active Member
There are no easy routes with Greece. If they remain in the EU, they will eventually need a bailout, that money is going to come from somewhere regardless if they stay or leave. Hence, taxes will be levied either way, but at least if Greece leaves, they can still make good on repayment, albeit it may take a bit longer for them to repay as that country reorganizes itself.
This is where politics and economic maneuvers come into play, perhaps lowering Greece's interest rate further may help. I assume both sides involved in this transaction understands the outcome of a Grexit and the implication of what's at stake. Hence, diplomatic negotiations need to be ironed out before an exit could occur; otherwise, chaos will ensue and no one wants that, not even a Greece that is eager to exit. That debt must be paid back and I assume Greece will honor their obligation, as long as this occurs, perception of a "smooth" exit can be maintained.
So far, It appears that markets across Asia to Europe are calm amid Grexit negotiations, that's because conditions today is very different than 2009 & 2012 when the rest of Europe was in panic mode. It's due to this calm atmosphere resinating in global markets that gives me the impression that a smooth exit can be achieved. IMO what goes behind closed doors during negotiations may be chaotic, but a grexit, if one occurs, will be done smoothly.
Desperately trying to get this thread back to at least a little bit related to Tesla in the EU market instead of general EU economics : Hertz is now offering two Model S's for rental at Schiphol airport (Amsterdam) at 250 EUR/day. I know about LA and SFO but I believe this is a first for Europe.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
But was it the German taxpayers that loaned that money to Greece?
Wasn’t it privately owned banks?
But then of course (!), the privately owned banks were ‘allowed’ to just ‘move’ those financial claims on Greece over to the taxpayers within the €-zone.
I wonder who owned/owns those private banks…
It’s the same old socialize losses – but of course – privatize profit.
But yes, it will be interesting to see what the German taxpayers feel about this whole cluster [self-censorship].
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
How would anyone around the world feel about having to work an extra 2-3 years before you can retire?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Cool, they must have seen the taxi fleet there and might also share infrastructure (chargers)... There are several small rental places and individuals with MSs in Germany though, but still looking for a place to rent a Model S closer to Aachen.
The BBC has a nice illustration:
The 60% labelled "Eurozone" is money from the ESM (European Stability Mechanism), which is funded by EU governments (i.e. tax payer's money) and heavily leveraged to €500bn. The national contributions to the ESM are distributed in proportion to EBT, so Germany has the biggest share. German taxpayers are in with €16bn.
If Greece defaults, the leverage would collapse, and taxpayers would have to refund the missing sum to ESM debitors.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
This might not be the best source – I'll see if I can find something better – but in the mean time...
The Blue Owl
Endangerous Herbivore
Yeah. Sadly, the type of skill the bankers demonstrate is the same as the one employed by any (other) hostage takers: "If we go down, everyone else goes down with us".
A Finnish guy rented a Tesla from Caro for less than 100€ / day in Munich last November. He got a P85 and was very happy. However it looks like Tesla is not listed in Caro's vehicle list and you have to request it:
The Tesla Model S - Book now at CARO! - CARO Car Rental
Here is the story in Finnish:
Teslalla Saksaan! | Tuomas Sauliala
ev-enthusiast
Active Member
Yes, just gave them a call and confirmed 100€ per day. That is a very good deal for a very good car
Thanks for the hint!
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