In my opinion the Model S interior isn't very different from what you get on an entry-level BMW/Mercedes/Audi. But you are of course entitled to your opinion, as am I.
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
I have another idea that I want to float to see what other think of it in terms of increasing european demand. This is for increasing demand, as long as Tesla is production constrained, it doesn't matter.
What about a S85- (or whatever you want to call it) that has significantly less power than a S85 and then also a lower price?
Either just software limited (cheap to make) or just mount the new rear motor that's in the S85D and not the front one (more expensive initially but probably better margin).
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Entry level in what class? In BMW-speak, 1-, 3- 5- or 7-series?
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I think the 3-series to compare with for europe is the 318d or 320d.
318d starts at $36k (33750 EUR) in germany if we're talking european demand and not only norwegian.
What about a S85- (or whatever you want to call it) that has significantly less power than a S85 and then also a lower price?
Either just software limited (cheap to make) or just mount the new rear motor that's in the S85D and not the front one (more expensive initially but probably better margin).
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In my opinion the Model S interior isn't very different from what you get on an entry-level BMW/Mercedes/Audi. But you are of course entitled to your opinion, as am I.
Entry level in what class? In BMW-speak, 1-, 3- 5- or 7-series?
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I think the 3-series to compare with for europe is the 318d or 320d.
318d starts at $36k (33750 EUR) in germany if we're talking european demand and not only norwegian.
I'm not sure if I would consider the BMW 3 series a very significant competitor in Norway. If your goal is to sell as many Model 3 as BMW 3-series, Tesla will sell far fewer Model 3 than Model S! In 2015, the Model S was the 5th most popular car - the BMW 3-series wasn't in the top 20.
No, the biggest competitors of the Model 3 in Norway will be reasonably priced family cars like the Golf and Focus. Both of which are very popular as station wagons, btw.
Pickup won't sell. No way. The only people you see driving pickups are construction workers and the occasional Amcar-fan. And these groups don't generally like electric cars.
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Runarbt
Active Member
The only problem is, this wont have the same margin for Tesla. If they limit the output, or put in a smaler motor.. the cost to produce the car would be the same I assume.
The only thing they do, is sell the car with less profit.
I think this is what model 3 is for. The less expensive, but still high maring, Tesla to increase sales above and beyond ....
No (as far as we know). They disassemble the cars somewhat before import and then reassembles them in the netherlands.
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The only problem is, this wont have the same margin for Tesla. If they limit the output, or put in a smaler motor.. the cost to produce the car would be the same I assume.
The only thing they do, is sell the car with less profit.
I think this is what model 3 is for. The less expensive, but still high maring, Tesla to increase sales above and beyond ....
The smaller motor is probably cheaper. But you're right, increasing demand will reduce margin.
In my opinion the Model S interior isn't very different from what you get on an entry-level BMW/Mercedes/Audi. But you are of course entitled to your opinion, as am I.
When new.
After a few months, unlike the BMW, the Tesla will sound like a 10 year old mini-cab.
It might be something to do with the temperature ranges the plastics experience, I guess mine has seen swings between -5c and +30c, but so have the BMWs / Mercs / Audis we have on fleet which don't seem to suffer the same issue.
This really is something Tesla need to focus on for the UK market, constantly getting the service center to fix cabin noises really isn't sustainable.
Next time you are sat in an Audi, simply push the dash and see what happens. Try the same in a Tesla and the difference in quality is plain to feel. Visually very similar first glance quality, but definitely not built to the same robustness!
I was thinking ~3 series. (Though I have more experience with entry-level Audis and Mercedes.)
Ok. Then I can somewhat agree with you. I was thinking more BMW 5-series, Audi A6 or Mercedes E-class (or even BMW 7-series) since that's more equivalent in size and somewhat close price wise as well (except in norway).
I guess we do
Tesla got me the latest 520d as a loaner, and I have to say I was impressed. On motorways at 70+ mph, their is very little difference in comfort, or noise level. I wouldn't say the interior materials were made of hard plastics, and it too had a glass dash (admittedly a hybrid one, as the dials are traditional needles but the effect's the same seeing as you can't customize the dials on the Tesla).
Nothing creaked or rattled, I had under knee support, and plenty of places to put stuff. Plus the steering on the 5 is a country mile better in terms of feel. Sure you can get pano roof and alcantara as upgrades on the Model S, but we are talking standard kit.
Here in the UK I could pickup a 520d for £300pcm on contract hire, but a base 60kW with no options is closer to £800.
So why didn't I just buy a 5 series? Exclusivity, power delivery, and the incentives opened up in extracting cash from my business without paying income tax on it
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Model 3 will be ~20% more than Golf or Focus. No way around it. But it will also be much more car.
Americans who drive full size pickups hate electric cars and many have a deep unquestionable hate for Tesla in particular.
The point is to make such a compelling truck you change minds.
There was a time when American truck owners swore on their mother's eternal soul they would never buy a foreign brand pickup.
Now a fair number buy Japanese trucks.
Unsuspecting Ram owners don't know their truck is made by British Co domiciled in The Netherlands for tax purposes with historic ties to Italy and largely controlled by an Italian family. :crying:
The 1, 2 and 3 series are smaller much cheaper cars.
Comparing with the 5-series, you can get all things you mention as options similarly priced as the same option on the MS except for the fake-suede dash. You can get real nappa leather though...
Digital dash is not standard but a pretty cheap option ($600?).
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
I did this last year and I invite anyone here who wonders about German luxury cars vs Tesla when it comes to interior. Drive your Model S to your local BMW dealer, park it next to a 5 series (or drive to Mercedes and pick an E class) and sit in each car for a few minutes, alternating between them. Observe the fit and finish, the quality of the seats, the functionality (do I dare to mention cup holders? storage in the passenger area), and then talk to the sales drone about the available options.
I love love love my car. But I've driven BMWs for the 25 years prior to getting my first Model S and frequently rent them when I go to Europe.
Tesla has a lot of room for improvement.
Right now they are supply constraint. But to continue growing at 50% y/y they will eventually need to do better in these direct comparisons.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Tesla is doing better every couple of months.
Alcantara dash and headliner.
Heated steering wheel.
Recaro New Generation heated seats.
Some fat Americans still prefer no thigh support traditional wide flat Cadillac/Lincoln style seats so those are not going away.
Optional rear counsel with cup holders.
The storage thing is really a philosophical disagreement. Between minimalist aesthetic and practicality.
Many see all the storage bins as trash/clutter collectors. Eliminating them forces you to keep the car clean and uncluttered.
Anywho, I think the Model X will come with storage bins and juice box holders up to your eyeballs since Tesla keeps repeating this will be more women/family friendly.
My previous car was a Nissan Frontier
(Well Navara as they are called here) Does that make me special ? (Previous to that it was an Exige S, so I think I've answered my own question )Small point I didn't think the Frontier was a "Full Size", and the Titan was the Nissan's offering in that segment
I certainly hope so. The slightly higher price is easily justified with the lower running costs, provided the Model 3 can be every bit as practical in everyday life. That means it needs to be roomy, have a 200+ mile range and have supercharger access. Also, it should have the option of a tow hitch, and an AWD version would definitely boost demand.
If Tesla manages this, the Model 3 will *easily* become the most popular car in Norway.
It might sell in the US, but in Norway? No. The pickup market is miniscule (~2%). Don't know about the rest of europe, either. It parobably wouldn't sell well.
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
I think we all can dream up the perfect Model 3... the one that would become the most popular car everywhere.
I'm so hoping Tesla comes close to that car we are dreaming up...
Pickups in Europe are as common as flying pigs in the US.
They are super popular in the US, in parts of Latin America, in the Arab world... so from an "existing Tesla markets" point of view... the US and maybe Australia?
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