Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW you can "kinda" get "set TACC speed to current speed" by adding a max negative offset to speed...
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FWIW you can "kinda" get "set TACC speed to current speed" by adding a max negative offset to speed...
Sorry to revive an old thread, how’s the build quality of BMW vs. Tesla? One thing I like about my BMW is how solid and composed it feels when going over bumps. I also kinda wish the Model comes with adaptive suspension and heated steering wheels.
For context, I am a 20+ year BMW owner/enthusiast. I currently have an E46 M3 convertible (weekend toy), 2017 F80 M3 (daily driver), just returned our 2017 i3 Rex, and picked up a Stealth Model 3 (P3D-, LR AWD Performance, etc) for the wife's daily driver and there are a few things you should know.
1. BMW is a 100+ year old company that knows every trick in the book in manufacturing and producing excellent paint, body work, interior design, balanced driving machines. Fit and finish is top notch. Design is driver oriented. Everything is made to increase driving pleasure. Technology on a BMW, though adequate, is NOT cutting edge. They lag behind Tesla despite trying to catchup the last few years, and are NOT on par to Tesla in anyway. I would guess they are about 3-5 years behind in this area despite having dabbled in self driving cars for many many years and trying to implement OTA software updates. BMW is inherently a very conservative company (or at least used to be). Things need to be tested and vetted before hitting the market, and even then, they view the NA US market as very sue happy so they rather not take the chance. Things move very slow in terms of coming to market. BMW's philosophy is they want you to buy/lease another car every 2-3 years to get the latest and greatest, not get a free software update that gives you more features (no way Jose! you gotta buy a new car to get new features!) This mindset just doesn't work anymore.
2. Tesla is a what, a tech company in its 16th year or so of existence? They produce SUPERIOR tech vs. BMW. However, they cannot hold a candle to the coach build of a BMW. Fit and finish, though much improved, is not on the same level. Material quality, though adequate, is not on the same level. Think Tesla quality = VW quality = Toyota quality = Kia quality...you get the idea. Maybe one day Tesla will be able to match the coach building of a German marque, but they still are a long ways away from that. However, being a vertically integrated tech company has many advantages and Tesla can move very quickly. Tesla is keen on market feedback and is very adept at giving customers what they want. When you buy a Tesla, you feel like your purchase is somewhat future proofed. The same cannot be said of any legacy car builder today, including BMW.
I could go on and on about my experiences with BMW, both good and bad, but overall, you can see that BMW is the past and Tesla is the future. Maybe BMW will get their act together and build a Tesla killer but I am not sure they will be bringing a ringer like that to the game or not. If I was BMW, I'd make the next 3 series fully electric and downsize the variations of offerings to just the basics (330, 340, and M3), style it like a modern BMW (no big hideous grilles), and give it at least 350 miles of range and price it at 45k, 55k, 65k and it would win most if not all the BMW converts such as myself back. But we all know BMW won't do that. They care more about the risk of cheapening their brand and want to nickel and dime you over options packages vs. anything else and to me, that is why it was time to try something new and move on to a Tesla.
Material quality, though adequate, is not on the same level. Think Tesla quality = VW quality = Toyota quality = Kia quality...you get the idea. Maybe one day Tesla will be able to match the coach building of a German marque, but they still are a long ways away from that. However, being a vertically integrated tech company has many advantages and Tesla can move very quickly. Tesla is keen on market feedback and is very adept at giving customers what they want.
I sort of disagree on materials quality. I cross shopped the G20 3 series and Model 3's material quality is superior in my opinion. Especially the vegan steering wheel feels significantly higher quality than the cheap (plasticky) G20 steering wheel. My F32 4 series also had some hard plastics that the Model 3 doesn't have.
I also have zero creaks or rattles in my Model 3. Multi coat white paint is definitely satisfactory though not as thick and rich as in our Lexus (to be fair Lexus has arguably the best paint quality of any brand) and panel/trim alignment is much improved compared to earlier builds but still not as tight as BMW or Lexus...
BMW wants to hedge its risk rather than go headlong in a specific direction. Its corporate strategy is for all short-term platforms having modularity to equip as combustion, battery, or hybrid. They can plug-and-play the configuration as needed for every market. The i3 was developed as a learning/exploratory project, not a main part of core portfolio, hence they never pushed strongly in that direction.
They have healthy enough margins and appropriate ownership structure to take a larger gamble. But then again, money is money, and they've been making it.
I don't buy the excuse of Tesla being relatively young as the cause for quality woes and fit and finish. That is purely a conscious, management decision. No company is expected to reinvent the wheel before manufacturing every product. Toyota shares its production know-how openly. Tesla can and do poach people with the right experience. Fiat and Dodge are some of the oldest companies in the industry, and they largely make garbage. Kia Motors is old, Hyundai is young. Both made rubbish - independent of age - until they got together and decided to go upmarket with things like Genesis brand.
We can be sympathetic to Tesla's position. Why they do what they did resulting in less than perfect fit and finish for the cars. It was because of pressure to hit delivery targets, show profitability/sustainability, etc. But not because they did not know how.
Somebody rated my post as funny?BMW is not likely to survive the transition to EVs. They will be facing bankruptcy by 2022 and will ask for (and get) a government bailout.
You can mark this post and recheck in a couple of years. Conservative hedging does not work in the midst of disruption.
Yes, I did. I found it humorous that in one post you took completely opposite positions. You first stated the opinion that BMW will not survive the transition to EVs. Then, you stated they will face bankruptcy and get bailed out. If BMW gets bailed out, then the result is that they have survived.Did you read my entire post above before rating it funny? I explicitly said they would get bailed out.
Ok I guess. My definition of failure is bankruptcy. But yes, unfortunately in the modern world failure is rewarded and BMW will survive in some altered state.Yes, I did. I found it humorous that in one post you took completely opposite positions. You first stated the opinion that BMW will not survive the transition to EVs. Then, you stated they will face bankruptcy and get bailed out. If BMW gets bailed out, then the result is that they have survived.
Ergo, my reference to GM 2009.
Maybe I don't understand your definition of survive.
My definition of survive is being in business after the bail out. Failure to survive is not being in business.
I appreciate your explanation.Ok I guess. My definition of failure is bankruptcy. But yes, unfortunately in the modern world failure is rewarded and BMW will survive in some altered state.
Tesla is a what, a tech company in its 16th year or so of existence?
Not sure I agree with the spirit of that statement.
You are right literally that they were registered in 2003 and so it is a 16 year old company. That kind of definition would make sense for a software or a service company. For a company that has to build massive factories, buy cutting edge machines, spend enormous capital (which other industry is this capital intensive?) , hire tens of thousands of blue collar workers & some of the highly paid Silicon Valley computer professionals and make a 'consumer' product - it is not fair to count their existence from the day they registered.
it is only fair to say they are a 7 year old company from 2012 when they released Model S. It is then they got real world experience of mass manufacturing cars in an assembly line.
For a 7 year old company they are doing great.
BMW is not likely to survive the transition to EVs. They will be facing bankruptcy by 2022 and will ask for (and get) a government bailout.
You can mark this post and recheck in a couple of years. Conservative hedging does not work in the midst of disruption.
I agree with this. I posted in the BMW forums a few years back that once BMW was taken over by accountants and not people with a passion for driving they were doomed. We now see the fruits of number crunchers running the show. When you try to be everything to everybody you’ll ultimately fail.
...and that’s why many of us are on this forum now.