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First Drive of our new Tesla S 75D; and subsequent trips; Supercharging Speeds

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Graffi, May 18, 2017.

  1. Graffi

    Graffi Member

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    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I posted previously that we purchased a new Model S 75D from inventory from Denver, CO. We flew from San Diego, CA to Denver Tuesday morning, 5/16/17 to pick it up from the Denver Service Center. We did all the paperwork, got the instructions, then left for San Diego for what turned out to be a 26 hour trip. We took our time along the way, starting with over an hour lunch at a Mexican restaurant down the street from the Service Center.

    We made it back from Denver to San Diego with no problems. We got back home around 2pm yesterday, Wednesday, after a "fill-up" at the Temecula, CA Supercharger. We left the Tesla Model S 75D set at 90% because there is no need to wait around for the extra time to get that last 10% anyway. We only missed the one Supercharger in north Las Vegas because we wanted to stop at the one close to the airport, Las Vegas south. We would stop it at 80% then on to the next station. We very much enjoyed our drive, meeting many other Tesla owners. We ended up spending more time at most stations than we had planned just chatting with the folks.

    We found ourselves driving much faster than we had planned, just following the flow of traffic. We LOVE the AP2. It took some getting used to but eventually we both learned to trust it to make the curves by itself without us taking over. We were set for 7 car lengths spacing but eventually realized that we will need to change that, maybe try 3 and see how it goes. The auto lane change is great. The car already had the 17.17.17 update installed. We do hope that future updates will help to smooth out the driving around curves, but the jerking was not too bad, considering that we could just let it go and do it's thing and still get us home safe.

    We only had one leg that gave us worry. We had stopped the charge at 70% in Green River, UT, thinking that the rated 181 mile range would be enough to get us the 124 miles we needed with a little reserve until the next Supercharger in Richfield, UT. After all, we did have 57 miles more than we needed, right? Well, what we did not (read that to mean me, not my wife) account for was the terrain and wind. We were happily driving along with AP going 80 mph up, then up, then up some more. There is a lot of high mountain passes on this route. Beautiful though it was, even at night, it is very high. Also we were experiencing very strong head winds. Now in the usual rented cars we take our cross country trips in we can feel the wind, hear it even. NOT in the Tesla S. It was so smooth and quite. Such a joy to drive in. Okay, back to the story. Anyway, we were happily driving (meaning me for this leg), using the AP2. Every once in a while I would check the Remaining Miles, and compare it to the miles needed to drive to get to the Richfield, UT Supercharger. I began to notice that our reserve of 57 miles kept reducing. Then the GPS on the touch-screen, along with the dash GPS started giving me the message that I needed to slow down to 60 mph to make it to our next stop. Well when did I ever listen to sound advice. I was not going to let some computer tell me what to do. So on I drove at 80 mph (this was the posted speed limit, by the way), but I was continuing to watch the dwindling reserve while AP2 was continuing to safely drive us along the freeway. Eventually I started having visions of spending hours waiting on a tow truck, in the middle of the night, just to drag us to the next Supercharger. Therefore when the reserve reached 30 miles I slowed down 5 mph, to 75. When the reserve reached 25 miles I slowed down another 5 mph, to 70. This was a little better, but it kept dropping. By this time we were past the summit and on our way down so it should give us lots more range. However, the headwind was not helping us at all. At 20 miles reserve another 5 mph reduction to 65 mph. We were lasting longer at each reduced speed, but still losing reserve. At 15 miles reserve I slowed down another 5 mph to 60. By this time I was wishing that we had waited the extra 10 minutes to charge from 70% to 80%. That extra 25 rated miles would have been useful. Even at 60 mph we were still losing reserve because of the headwind. At 10 miles reserve I again slowed down another 5 mph to 55 mph. As a side note, we do love the AP2 speed adjustment of 1 mph and 5 mph. It makes it so easy to adjust speed. Finally at 55 mph we were able to get better efficiency than rated so the reserve started to grow. I though about increasing speed but decided that the extra time driving slower was not worth the risk of not getting to the station. Well Hallelujah, we made it to the Richfield, UT Supercharger station with a whopping 22 miles remaining (8% of battery). From then on we charged a minimum of 80%, except at Las Vegas south we stopped as soon as we got back from the bathroom and the car was at 66%. We only had 36 miles to Primm, NV. At Primm we went to the McDonalds for breakfast so the car was almost 90% when we returned. We waited a couple of minutes for it to finish, then left for Barstow, CA., 119 miles away.

    Overall, we are very happy with our new Tesla, and are looking forward to the next 15,000 miles or so of trips we will be using it for in the next 3 months.

    Concerning the Supercharger speeds, I was looking forward to getting 120Kw for the first 50% of charge, but was disappointed. It must be with the 90 or 100Kwh models that get that speed. The highest speed we got was 99kw, but usually 97 or 98kw below 50% battery charge. From above 50% the speed dropped. I tried to record speed at each 5% mark but missed some when we left the car to eat or use the restroom. I will continue to plot our Supercharger speeds as we continue our travels in the next few months. We did notice that every Supercharger was different, but within a close range of speed. I will post what data I have now.

    Below 50% charge: 96 to 99Kw
    55% - 80 to 87Kw
    60% - 72 to 81Kw
    65% - 64 to 78Kw
    70% - 56 to 66Kw
    75% - 43 to 56Kw
    80% - 36 to 44Kw
    85% - 29 to 36Kw
    90% - 25 to 30Kw
    I will update this list as more data is gathered on our next trip.

    The slowest charge, and the station furtherest from the freeway, was St. George, UT. Also at St. George we were not able to find restroom until the Starbucks opened up at 5am. Because of this we stayed plugged in until the full 90% charge was achieved while we were away from the car. The GPS got us to every station, but we did have to search in the dark before we saw a few of them. Still, overall we were very happy with our experience.

    On a side note, we have learned to use "Hypermileing" techniques driving our Leaf. We try to drive only 55 or 60 mph on the freeway, Occasionally we go faster, but only if we are in a big hurry and a short trip. With the Tesla I thought about trying to limit our speed to 60 mph on the trip back to conserve energy. However, since I needed to get back home to teach a class Wednesday night I felt it best to give the Tesla a real world test run. Most drivers of gas cars seem to push the limit of speed. If EVs are to gain general acceptance then they must meet these needs, even if that is not the most efficient method. Very few drivers are thinking about conserving. They just want to conserve their time and never mind what fuel or energy they waste. Because of this, I set the Tesla limit at 5 mph over speed limit. However, on the entire trip our fastest cruising speed was 80 mph.

    We are looking forward to our next trips:

    Tomorrow, Friday, 5/19/17 and Saturday from San Diego to Disneyland with the kids and grandkids with a stop at Santa Ana Supercharger on the way up, and San Diego Supercharger on the way home.

    Memorial Day Weekend a drive up to San Francisco area for the weekend with multiple stops each way.

    Two week cross-country trip to Ohio, then Georgia and Florida, then back home to San Diego by July 4th.

    Mid August One week trip to Pacific North West, including WY, then return to San Diego.

    I will continue to track our charging speeds for all three of these trips and report back on this thread.
     
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  2. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Did a 6000+ mile trip last fall, learned to never charge below 80% unless the leg was super short, use evtripplanner.com estimates with correct speed multiplier rather than Tesla's onboard estimator, and SC before checking into a hotel rather than after (when the battery is cold in the morning, SC is super slow, even if you pre-heat your cabin to 80 degreesF for an hour before heading out of the hotel). For my driving style/speed and in the fall temperatures I found I arrived at the next SC with up to 30% less SoC than estimated by the car when leaving the prior supercharger.
     
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  3. BrokerDon

    BrokerDon Member

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    [QUOTE="Graffi, post: 2109541, member: 60314"

    We only had one leg that gave us worry. We had stopped the charge at 70% in Green River, UT, thinking that the rated 181 mile range would be enough to get us the 124 miles we needed with a little reserve until the next Supercharger in Richfield, UT. After all, we did have 57 miles more than we needed, right? Well, what we did not (read that to mean me, not my wife) account for was the terrain and wind. We were happily driving along with AP going 80 mph up, then up, then up some more. There is a lot of high mountain passes on this route. Beautiful though it was, even at night, it is very high. Also we were experiencing very strong head winds. Now in the usual rented cars we take our cross country trips in we can feel the wind, hear it even. NOT in the Tesla S. It was so smooth and quite. Such a joy to drive in. Okay, back to the story. Anyway, we were happily driving (meaning me for this leg), using the AP2. Every once in a while I would check the Remaining Miles, and compare it to the miles needed to drive to get to the Richfield, UT Supercharger. I began to notice that our reserve of 57 miles kept reducing. Then the GPS on the touch-screen, along with the dash GPS started giving me the message that I needed to slow down to 60 mph to make it to our next stop. Well when did I ever listen to sound advice. I was not going to let some computer tell me what to do. So on I drove at 80 mph (this was the posted speed limit, by the way), but I was continuing to watch the dwindling reserve while AP2 was continuing to safely drive us along the freeway. Eventually I started having visions of spending hours waiting on a tow truck, in the middle of the night, just to drag us to the next Supercharger. Therefore when the reserve reached 30 miles I slowed down 5 mph, to 75. When the reserve reached 25 miles I slowed down another 5 mph, to 70. This was a little better, but it kept dropping. By this time we were past the summit and on our way down so it should give us lots more range. However, the headwind was not helping us at all. At 20 miles reserve another 5 mph reduction to 65 mph. We were lasting longer at each reduced speed, but still losing reserve. At 15 miles reserve I slowed down another 5 mph to 60. By this time I was wishing that we had waited the extra 10 minutes to charge from 70% to 80%. That extra 25 rated miles would have been useful. Even at 60 mph we were still losing reserve because of the headwind. At 10 miles reserve I again slowed down another 5 mph to 55 mph. As a side note, we do love the AP2 speed adjustment of 1 mph and 5 mph. It makes it so easy to adjust speed. Finally at 55 mph we were able to get better efficiency than rated so the reserve started to grow. I though about increasing speed but decided that the extra time driving slower was not worth the risk of not getting to the station. Well Hallelujah, we made it to the Richfield, UT Supercharger station with a whopping 22 miles remaining (8% of battery). From then on we charged a minimum of 80%, except at Las Vegas south we stopped as soon as we got back from the bathroom and the car was at 66%. We only had 36 miles to Primm, NV. At Primm we went to the McDonalds for breakfast so the car was almost 90% when we returned. We waited a couple of minutes for it to finish, then left for Barstow, CA., 119 miles away.

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I've posted previously, I definitely recommend you use EVTripPlanner.com and an wind forecast app like WindAlert to plan your trip legs... and Tesla Winds to monitor the wind resistance IN REAL TIME during your trip leg. Also paying more attention to the projected % charge remaining at your next Supercharger in the Tesla navigation will help you adjust your speed during your trip leg.

    Also consider using Autopilot to draft larger vehicles, turning on Range Mode and lowering your air suspension if you're range is dropping precipitously. We've had to do this twice in the desert between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. We drafted a Mercedes Sprinter van going 75 mph which was more energy efficient than slowing down to 60 mph). Worked amazingly well to get to our next Supercharger in crazy headwinds going into Barstow and Primm.
     
  4. troypercival

    troypercival Member

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    Lol 8% (22 miles) is a lot I got to a supercharger at 1mile
     

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  5. Graffi

    Graffi Member

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    I loaded into favorites two web pages: TeslaWaze and TeslaWinds. I did use EV Trip Planner at home before the trip but did not load it into the Touch Screen. I will before tomorrow's drive. It was nice having both of these, although I had to switch back and forth between then as the top screen was the GPS for the entire trip. As we get more experience driving the Tesla we will be better prepared to shorten our charge sessions. For now I think we will stick to 80% unless we have a much longer leg, or are staying longer to eat or do other things, in which case we will let it charge all the way to 90%. For now I want to avoid going all the way to 100% as much as possible.
     
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  6. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    #6 whitex, May 18, 2017
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
    The closest I ever got was this (the grey line was what the car was estimating, colored line is actual usage - Mitchell SC to Murdo SC, 65 degrees and sunny all the way, extripplanner told me to charge >90%, so I did) :
    Mitchell2Murdo.png

    What I think kills the in-car estimates is it assumes 65mph top speed.
     
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  7. Fiver

    Fiver Member

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    1 mile? That's so much. Real pro's roll in with nothing showing.

    /edit. Took 2 hours, 19 minutes and 27 seconds to charge from 0% to 100%.
     

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  8. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    You left the prior charging spot with less than 30KWhr in the battery knowing you have 95miles to go? Or was the last 12.7 miles driving in circles to drain the battery to see if it can be done? ;)
     
  9. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Peaking at 97/98 kW matches with my experience on my X75D.

    The small battery cars have a lower system voltage, so they can't charge as quickly when the current through the plug/cord is the limiting factor.

    On the other hand, you do get more miles per kWh than the big battery cars.
     
  10. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    You'd think. Our 75D when following P85DL on a road trip, uses within 1% Wh/mile of the P85DL. Now, my wife in the 75D does keep the cabin temperature higher, maybe that would account for some of the power usage, but it cannot be that much. So, even though the 75D has a higher rated range (by 6 miles), I somehow don't think it would actually make it farther than the P85DL if driven the same way (since P85DL has 5KWh more usable battery energy, 77 vs. 72 ). I just assume that both cars have about the same range. We never went on any 2 Tesla road trips requiring supercharging yet, but I know the 75 will charge a little slower.
     
  11. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Lots of variables even when following the other car, from HVAC settings and acceleration/regen aggressiveness to tires and tire wear state.

    EPA ratings balance all of those out, but that doesn't mean they aren't real effects for your personal usage.
     
  12. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Hard for two cars to accelerate differently when one is immediately following the other. P85DL was the lead, but never out-accelerated the 75D. Most of the trip was highway driving between 60 and 80 (so rear motor sleeps). Tire inflation was as 44psi per sticker (car monitors that, I check regularly just in case). Both cars had 19" tires. 75D had brand new tires vs. P85DL with 20K miles. There could have been some regen difference, but as a lead car I always slow down almost entirely on regen so there no sudden braking. The difference between HVAC settings was 67 P85DL vs. 76 for 75D.

    I wasn't questioning the EPA rating, just mentioning that in real life scenario the effect of smaller battery weight (and in this case smaller rear motor) are mostly unnoticeable.
     
  13. rory breaker

    rory breaker Member

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    Because the mileage is never accurate, you always have to overdo it at SC's. That's what's so annoying about throttling charging speed back. Tesla, I'm not trying to get free juice, I don't give a *sugar* honestly, just want the thing to charge as fast as possible so I can get where I'm going. For example if the closest SC to my destination is 30 miles...no im not going to just charge the 30 miles to get there and back perhaps, I'm going to fully charge the car so I can drive it around conveniently. Not to get free electricity, rather to simply use my f'ng car.

    Frustrating when companies penalize everyone assuming they are taking advantage of something. Try Nordstroms route, trust your customers, invest in our experience.
     
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  14. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    :eek: 80?

    I ALWAYS over charge unless i'm in a hurry. I am also one of those that pass SC'ers rather than getting 60% or whatever. I would rather drive longer, then stop for a 100% charge and relax for an hour.
     
  15. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    If the following car is using TACC, I wouldn't be surprised if it had worse efficiency with all other factors being equal - in my experience TACC tends to wait far too long in reacting and then has to use the friction brakes, throwing away energy.

    But okay, I see and acknowledge your experience as presented. :)
     
  16. Mattzilla

    Mattzilla Member

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    I was disappointed to learn that the 75D cannot charge at 120kW as well. This was never said to me at any point during the purchasing process and I never saw anything about it online. The Supercharger page made zero mention of it. The highest rate I've been able to achieve is 92kW. Lately I am unable to top 87kW.
     
  17. Fiver

    Fiver Member

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    I had a pretty good idea I would make it fine to the supercharger. As I got closer I started driving more and more lead footed and turned on the heat, regen on low/using neutral instead of regen and all that type of stuff to drain faster. I did two mini laps around the parking lot when I got to the SC but once it read 0 I parked and plugged in pretty quick. I had just gotten the car and didn't know RemoteS had the ability to show more accurate milage info then the Tesla display yet. Also I had no idea how long it would take to charge to 100% and didn't feel like sitting there with the heat on to drain the last sub 0 % off the battery. I ended up napping in the front seat for most of that supercharge anyway.
     
  18. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    Yea, 80 is boiling hot for me (usually set to 66) but once, once on a trip, I was parked outside and it was in the 40's in the morning, so I turned it on Max Heat for over an hour while still at the hotel (had to restart it a couple of times) knowing I need to charge at a nearby SC before going on the next leg. Sadly, while I managed to melt some chocolate that I was snacking on during the trip, the battery stayed super cold - when I got to the supercharger it was trickle charging for a bit (sub 10KW for the first 15 minutes at least IIRC). I should have supercharged the night before instead, lesson learned.
     
  19. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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    No TACC on 75D and did't use it on P85DL. I do agree with you that TACC uses regen less than I do, mostly because I can foresee traffic slowing down way before TACC can by seeing stop lights in cars ahead and other cues (so much for computer being better than humans, at least so far).
     
  20. VikH

    VikH Member

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    Agreed. I did not realize this until someone on the forums mentioned it. Annoying!o_O
     

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