Fisker Karma

[DDB]

Unfortunately, all of this mocking of Fisker's Karma is not going to amount to much if the guys at Tesla don't get their collective 5h!t together and start mass producing a marketable product.

It's market saturation that does more for an emerging technology/product to secure public acceptance and encourage desire for it, not to mention increasing demand for the improvement for said technology, as well as push sales demands.

Tesla is and has been at the cusp of the EV movement...it would be a shame if they let their edge dull due to personality conflicts/differing business ideologies...oh, wait a second....

Don't put too much stock in Tesla. Yep, they have the halo car right now...but I'd be Fisker has quite a few reservations. Besides, GM's Volt is not far off. It does not look as cool as the Karma, but it's a, well, version of it which should come out in enough volume to make a dent.

 

[graham]

Honestly, I think there is enough demand that Tesla, Fisker and GM (and Aptera... and Miles... and Zenn) can all be successful in this space without there having to be a "one-true winner". As long as they all can get/keep their act together and come out with compelling products at a competitive price.

 

[Cobos]

I've got a feeling there's quite a bit of pent-up demand for a practical luxury BEV and a cheap practical BEV. The first bigger players to satisfy that will get most of the early adopters I think. And as cars are usually not something regular people BUY very often that might be important for who succeds. If the Karma really is a paralell hybrid (which I find likely with a 250hp engine) I at least loose all interest. Then it's just a Lexus hybrid in a sedan package. I.e. big luxury cars with fuel consumption like one class lower kind of car.

Cobos

 

[graham]

The thing that I have seen mentioned about the Karma is that it has a bunch of different driving "modes". So even if it can be a parallel hybrid you can probably set it to a mode that makes it essentially a serial. It still has a big advantage over a Lexus in that it has a plug.

 

[TEG]

One article said the gas motor kicks in after 50miles, and another said after 50mph... Which is it...? If 50 miles then it seems to be a serial hybrid. If 50mph then a parallel hybrid... I am still guessing series hybrid and that it can reach top speed on eMotor power alone.

 

[dpeilow]

Fisker Automotive: Environmentally friendly, premium cars featuring plug-in hybrid technology >> Technology

Fisker Automotive is taking a novel approach to merging beauty and style with an environmental conscience. The car features cutting-edge plug-in hybrid technology, penned as Q DRIVE, developed by Quantum Technologies exclusively for Fisker Automotive. The Karma's Q DRIVE configuration consists of a small gasoline engine that turns the generator, which charges the lithium ion battery pack, powering the electric motor and turning the rear wheels.

This proprietary design allows consumers' to drive the car emission free for up to 50 miles (80km) a day provided the car is charged every evening.

 

[TEG]

Here were some with what I think may be wrong info:

2010 Fisker Karma: Fisker Karma Gets Approval To Go Finnish

...capable of traveling 50 MPH before the engine kicks in to charge the batteries...

Sympatico / MSN Autos (EN): Good Karma: Fisker picks GM Turbo engine to power its luxury plug-in hybrid

...Because the Karma is a plug-in parallel hybrid...

(but then goes on to describe it like a series hybrid...)

Perhaps this statement is what has confused some journalists:

...An optional sport mode allows the gas engine and electric motors to operate at the same time, increasing performance...

To me that means that the battery pack can't deliver enough current to offer full eMotor power so they use the generator and battery pack at the same time (in sport mode) to give full current to the eMotors. I suppose that mode of operation would confuse some people's idea of the distinction between series and parallel hybrid. Traditionally a Prius style Parallel hybrid can use the eMotor for power at the same time as the gas motor, but a big detail is that the gas motor can be mechanically connected to the drivetrain.
Q: If the gas engine is only ever connected to the generator and there is no mechanical connection to the drivetrain does that make it (by definition) a series hybrid even if the eMotor power may come from both batteries and generator at the same time?
Q: Are they trying to say that a true series hybrid would only ever run the gas generator when the car wasn't moving?

 

[TEG]

A bit more digging does indeed suggest that the Karma can't provide full eMotor performance from the battery pack alone. It provides maybe 2/3 of full capability on battery alone, but needs to fire up the ICE generator at the same time if you want to get full eMotor power. I still think it is technically a series hybrid, not parallel.

 

[dpeilow]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=57&t=617481&nmt=RE: Fisker Karma

After seeing the front, I thought "Ding Dong"...

Leslie Phillips - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[vfx]

This was also posted (by Traffman). Nice find:

And this was mentioned by H22K:

Thanks Dpeilow. Reading all the comments it look s like you have a naysayer that needs skoolin'.

 

[dpeilow]

Thanks - now skooled.

 

[vfx]

Thanks - now skooled.

kool!













.

 

[just-an-allusion]

Don't put too much stock in Tesla. Yep, they have the halo car right now...but I'd be Fisker has quite a few reservations. Besides, GM's Volt is not far off. It does not look as cool as the Karma, but it's a, well, version of it which should come out in enough volume to make a dent.

Cue in for next on-site poll: "Has Tesla dropped the ball?"

 

[vfx]

Fisker's reservations are "only" a grand. Easy To rack them up that way. My wife has one but with the new price jump we are probably pulling out (Just waiting for 1. to see if there will be any further EV rebates coming and 2. her current ride to go teets-up.)

 

[graham]

Will the Karma be eligible for the full $7500 Federal rebate? If so, the price jump is very small.

I wonder how much the Model S will end up competing with the Karma?

 

[vfx]

Will the Karma be eligible for the full $7500 Federal rebate?

It should. GM basically crafted the rebate for the Volt.

 

[DDB]

Fisker's reservations are "only" a grand. Easy To rack them up that way. My wife has one but with the new price jump we are probably pulling out (Just waiting for 1. to see if there will be any further EV rebates coming and 2. her current ride to go teets-up.)

You may want to wait until last minute to pull out--there will be people looking to buy your place in line just like we've seen with the Roadster. But let's hope you have some options when the time comes.

 

[just-an-allusion]

Supposition and conjecture can only get you so far, then you have to go to the source:

Fisker Automotive: Environmentally friendly, premium cars featuring plug-in hybrid technology

Niiiiice website BTW, background mood music and all.

 

[graham]

Bold Prediction: Venture Capitalist: Big 3 Should Turn To Silicon Valley - Tech Check with Jim Goldman - CNBC.com

Lane wants more a partnership between Detroit and Silicon Valley; wanting the Big 3 to outsource their innovation to this far more entrepreneurial region. His approach makes a lot of sense.

"I have one company that's going to be building 500,000 vehicles by Americans, sold to America, and I can do that for $200 million or $300 million. I don't need a billion dollars. Fisker will deliver and be cash-flow profitable on a couple of hundred million dollars. It doesn't need $25 billion," Lane tells me.

 

[just-an-allusion]

Honestly, I think there is enough demand that Tesla, Fisker and GM (and Aptera... and Miles... and Zenn) can all be successful in this space without there having to be a "one-true winner". As long as they all can get/keep their act together and come out with compelling products at a competitive price.

I agree with your review of the ever emerging EV market, finding it somewhat intuitive, as diversity is key to market viability and integration due to the diversity of personalities, appeals, tastes & likes, i.e., something for everyone, as all that we're really seeing here is the development of the same sentiments/preferences for vehicle/marque loyalty as is currently common with the ICE mindset, which is promising as it is indicative of widespread acceptance and desire for implementation of EV conversion from that of the long antiquated ICE method of vehicular powering...very promising indeed.