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For AWD owners wanting a P3D-

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My tax liability was only about half the full 7.5k so that's all I got back.
Your accountant couldn't get you there? Because if I couldn't I either wouldn't have been in a rush to buy....or I'd be set up enough financially I was able to manipulate my wealth to shield it from taxation and thus I wouldn't be sweating the small stuff. ;)

It wasn't surprising at all to see the prices drop in the new year. I wasn't expecting quite that magnitude but if you couldn't use more than 1/2 the Fed Tax Credit then anything would have been gravy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
There are no tricks to getting there, either you have the tax liability or you don't and my taxes were straight-forward 1040ez. I'm not setup financially, I just saved up for this car and lived frugal. I also wasn't necessarily in a rush to buy but I just wanted delivery as a Christmas present to me - in fact I'd already been holding out as a day 1 reservist in 2016 and waiting almost 3 years. I figured the price would go down over time but never by 11k for the Performance 6 months later (well more if you count AP/pearl white).
 
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I only regret that I must choose between Love, Helpful, and Funny for this post. :D

This is a concept I believe in wholeheartedly. It’s free money for Tesla. And fun as balls for the owners.

I’d expect to see it hit about halfway through a slower-than-expected quarter. A quick jolt in the arm - very high margin - probably north of 90%. Accounting rules say they’d have to allocate some portion of the P software development cost on the backside to each sale, but it’s still free money.

Shoot, convert just 5000 LR AWDs at $2000 each, and that’s almost $10m in accretive gross margin. Not bad.

It’s an easy lever to pull, and they’re likely holding it back for when they need it.

That said - it really leads me to think they turned a profit in Q2. If they weren’t sure, they would’ve pulled this one.
 
Basically, yes. Although what "the difference" actually is probably isn't sanely calculable now. ;) Just some number, in the $5,000 and change range, for the P's power curve and Track Mode. Aftermarket for parts as I go. Definitely don't want the 20" rims.

;)
I think I paid 10k more for my p3d-, that's after the 5k I got back? I can't remember anymore with all the crazy price changes. I think 10k more for the unlock is fair. Cheaper than buying a new car!
 
I think I paid 10k more for my p3d-, that's after the 5k I got back?
Nope. It was $9K to $11K more, as they adjusted the extra cost of the D above the RWD baseline between $4K and $6K, before the 5K refund. There was a period where the P was crazy amounts above the AWD, but that was cut before anything was actually sold and very few people had been able to put in an order. The P's price cut from something like $78K + software came at the same time that the P- become an option and the proper order system opened up for all things AWD.

All that pricing has become compressed now somewhat, too, as prices have fallen. $5K-$6K would be pretty reasonable for uncorking and Track Mode.

P.S. Maybe there'd be people that would buy one without the other. I might consider Track Mode without the curve adjustment, but there's not a lot of value I see in just the extra acceleration alone.
 
The motor binning was a load of rubbish
It didn't need to be full out "rubbish" if it just turned out that their quality was uniformly good enough, anyway. There was a plan and then it hit reality and it all came off better than conservatively set expectations.

Binning can be like that, it is pretty much what I expected even as it was described. The better bin just has more QA to back up the specs. This historically was a usual thing to see in microprocessors, you could push the limits on a cheaper binned part and maybe it'd be okay. Some batches and lines were more reliable doing this, because they simply had better underlying quality across all the parts. It isn't as much a thing anymore, because suppliers have gone to more lengths to confine their parts to their stated use, but underneath it remains the same.
 
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It didn't need to be full out "rubbish" if it just turned out that their quality was uniformly good enough, anyway.

Binning can be like that, it is pretty much what I expected even as it was described. The better bin just has more QA to back up the specs. This is historically was a usual thing to see in microprocessors, you could push the limits on a cheaper binned part and maybe it'd be okay. Some batches and lines were more reliable doing this, because they simply had better underlying quality across all the parts. It isn't as much a thing anymore, because suppliers have gone to more lengths to confine their parts to their stated use, but underneath it remains the same.

It actually reminds me of the Space Shuttle engines. When the RS-25 was in development, they calculated what they theoretical max thrust would be.

After testing on the first 5 flights, they found the engine running better than expected and decided to use the extra thrust. Rather than rewrite all the manuals and procedures, they just called the “new” max thrust 104%, and later 109%.

I’m wondering if we have a similar situation here ... the original plan had the P models’ performance right at the edge of what the new motors could deliver. After testing, they found they had additional margin - say, 109% torque - even in the “worst” motors, so rather than bin and create SKUs and manuals and such, they were able to just use the same motor across the board?

That’s the thing with Elon. So many people say he’s a liar. I say he’s just subject to diarrhea of the mouth ... he tends to talk about stuff that’s not fully baked yet. As long as you understand that and can swivel and pivot with him, it makes sense. But if you’re looking for Holy Gospel, he’s probably not your guy ...
 
Do I really need to accelerate even faster in my daily driver used 90% for commuting?

I’d pay ~$2k for this thoroughly pointless privilege?

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It actually reminds me of the Space Shuttle engines. When the RS-25 was in development, they calculated what they theoretical max thrust would be.

After testing on the first 5 flights, they found the engine running better than expected and decided to use the extra thrust. Rather than rewrite all the manuals and procedures, they just called the “new” max thrust 104%, and later 109%.

I’m wondering if we have a similar situation here ... the original plan had the P models’ performance right at the edge of what the new motors could deliver. After testing, they found they had additional margin - say, 109% torque - even in the “worst” motors, so rather than bin and create SKUs and manuals and such, they were able to just use the same motor across the board?

That’s the thing with Elon. So many people say he’s a liar. I say he’s just subject to diarrhea of the mouth ... he tends to talk about stuff that’s not fully baked yet. As long as you understand that and can swivel worn him, it makes sense. But if you’re looking for Holy Gospel, he’s probably not your guy ...
Yup, he pulls back the curtain and talks about products in the process of development in a far more transparent way than we've seen automobiles talked about in living memory. Yet dresses that up, I suspect purposefully to an extent, in emotionally expiring words using terms of art that maybe people don't quite fully grasp so come away with a distorted impression.

What people that weren't following as close maybe didn't realize was that Tesla hadn't built any of them yet when he was talking about that. There literally was not a single production vehicle in existence. They were in the process of putting together what was effectively a hand-built vehicle to be able to do the official EPA testing to confirm the numbers, and the front motors weren't being built en masse yet so there was no realistic way to be confident about how good those actual production parts yields were going to be. They'd had some early quasi-prototype motors done and testing for quite some time, but those were kinda hypothetical production parts. Almost certainly the design had been refined based on finding from that testing, too. So they just go with somewhere in the range of the testing numbers as "we can do at least this good".

Thus also why they pushed out that patch later to provide 5%-8% more peak HP and then much faster charging rates. Because they gathered longterm data from actual production parts so could revise the "we can do at least this good" numbers.
 
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It didn't need to be full out "rubbish" if it just turned out that their quality was uniformly good enough, anyway. There was a plan and then it hit reality and it all came off better than conservatively set expectations.

Binning can be like that, it is pretty much what I expected even as it was described. The better bin just has more QA to back up the specs. This historically was a usual thing to see in microprocessors, you could push the limits on a cheaper binned part and maybe it'd be okay. Some batches and lines were more reliable doing this, because they simply had better underlying quality across all the parts. It isn't as much a thing anymore, because suppliers have gone to more lengths to confine their parts to their stated use, but underneath it remains the same.
The problem is that outside the USA, Tesla are promoting the LR AWD as having greater range than the P (WLTP & NEDC)
 
The problem is that outside the USA, Tesla are promoting the LR AWD as having greater range than the P (WLTP & NEDC)
A quirk of those screwball testing protocols?

<edit> That makes total sense if one is done with 18" Aeros and the other with the 20" rims. Those wheels make a sizable difference. If I understand correctly, the EPA number for the P might have been gamed. Or the D was sandbagged. Do those tests allow sandbagging of the number like Tesla infamously did with the RWD?
 
Yup, he pulls back the curtain and talks about products in the process of development in a far more transparent way than we've seen automobiles talked about in living memory. Yet dresses that up, I suspect purposefully to an extent, in emotionally expiring words using terms of art that maybe people don't quite fully grasp so come away with a distorted impression.

Exactly. I’ve worked in the tech industry my whole life, so maybe I’m just used to preannouncements about technology that don’t always pan out how you thought they would ... It seems second nature to me, but for an institutional investor comparing Elon to, say, Mary Barra, I can see how that would be jolting, odd and seem sketchy. It’s just not the way Big Automotive used to work. But it’s changing, whether the ANALysts like it or not.

What people that weren't following as close maybe didn't realize was that Tesla hadn't built any of them yet when he was talking about that. There literally was not a single production vehicle in existence. They were in the process of putting together what was effectively a hand-built vehicle to be able to do the official EPA testing to confirm the numbers, and the front motors weren't being built en masse yet so there was no realistic way to be confident about how good those actual production parts yields were going to be. They'd had some early quasi-prototype motors done and testing for quite some time, but those were kinda hypothetical production parts. Almost certainly the design had been refined based on finding from that testing, too. So they just go with somewhere in the range of the testing numbers as "we can do at least this good".

Thus also why they pushed out that patch later to provide 5%-8% more peak HP and then much faster charging rates. Because they gathered longterm data from actual production parts so could revise the "we can do at least this good" numbers.

Exactly. Outside of Tesla, I’m most familiar with GM (having owned a bunch of them from old Chevys to modern Caddys).

GM would never announce something not fully baked, production ready, and passed all testing. They just wouldn’t.

I owned a 2013 Cadillac SRX. When it launched, there was a blurb on their webpage about “Never be out of date because CUE is upgradeable” or something like that. Anyway, someone filed a class action lawsuit because a newer Cadillac came out and had CarPlay, which the SRX’s hardware couldn’t do. All because of a throwaway oneliner on a marketing slide.

Either you get the Elon way (try it, shoot big, fail fast, or succeed.)

The lawyers haven’t taken control of Tesla ... yet.

Now, back to P upgrades. Given that no hardware and no field dispatch is needed to upgrade, what would you call a fair price for basically just faster 0-60 times?
 
Now, back to P upgrades. Given that no hardware and no field dispatch is needed to upgrade, what would you call a fair price for basically just faster 0-60 times?
Meh, I'm not sure about that because that doesn't interest me much. Maybe $3K-$4K? I wouldn't pay more than $2K but that's me.

Track Mode is the thing. If it has that then I'm strongly considering it until past $6K. At $5K I'd be scraping up the cash as fast as I could. $6K is about the 50/50 tipping point, and $7K would make it a lot less likely.
 
If I was investing I'd like to see millions of revenue based on zero cost on their end (aside from more warranty issues probably) as opposed to cars that have costs involved to sell.
That's what we call "low hanging fruit" ... and companies should pick as much of that as they can! I seriously doubt that existing owners will trade in for a new P3- so there's no hit on the potential 3 sales. Pure profit plus it makes your existing customers happy. No brainer.
 
Can we do a GoFundMe for sky writing over the factory? Im in for $100 lol

Let’s also all Tweet at him as much as possible. He wants our cars to be fun and it’s a no brainer money wise.

I’m up for getting this off the ground. Anyone know how to make it happen? I can set up the GoFundMe and message all the petition supporters about it. We could probably come up with some other good ideas as well. Anything that could garner some press??
 
I’m up for getting this off the ground. Anyone know how to make it happen? I can set up the GoFundMe and message all the petition supporters about it. We could probably come up with some other good ideas as well. Anything that could garner some press??

I understand he's rarely at Tesla... spending more time at SpaceX and "Brain Hacking" efforts these days - "Really!"

Elon Musk reveals brain-hacking plans