n2mb_racing
Active Member
Do you have HW 2 or HW3? I've noticed AP has a lot more phantom braking on our HW2 car than our HW 3 car. Seems like they aren't continuing to update the software for the old computers.
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FSD price increase on Jan 17
- Thread starter EVRider-FL
- Start date
Do you have HW 2 or HW3? I've noticed AP has a lot more phantom braking on our HW2 car than our HW 3 car. Seems like they aren't continuing to update the software for the old computers.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
After much thinking back and forth last night, I paid for the upgrade. Figured the value and the take rate on the higher trim cars is higher (~$7k currently, ~66% with FSD), therefore should be easier to sell my car in the future, if I want to, and I'll get to use whatever FSD features are available for the next few years without worrying about the subscription fee.
Although, as of this morning, the price is still $10k.
Although, as of this morning, the price is still $10k.
I think it was just a tactic to push people on the edge over into buying FSD..After much thinking back and forth last night, I paid for the upgrade. Figured the value and the take rate on the higher trim cars is higher (~$7k currently, ~66% with FSD), therefore should be easier to sell my car in the future, if I want to, and I'll get to use whatever FSD features are available for the next few years without worrying about the subscription fee.
Although, as of this morning, the price is still $10k.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
And I fell for it.I think it was just a tactic to push people on the edge over into buying FSD..
I did the same thing when it went from $2k to $3k and then $3k to $5k. I passed both of those times, which worked out because nothing was delivered before I sold that car. Now I'm actually expecting something to be delivered before I sell this car.
That depends when you bought.
When I bought, the feature description looked like this:
[ ... ]
The video embedded above is still on their site, but not anymore advertised as something you will get when you buy FSD. Video is very specific in setting the expectations that the tech demonstrated is real by stating:
Overall looks pretty convincingly that Tesla is selling L5. I am probably not the only one who clicked that "Order Model S" button above.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
True. I'd be happy with level 3/4. If it could handle freeway driving without driver attention, under certain circumstances, that would be amazing for long trips.
Maybe selling -- at the prepaid locked in price -- but it was pretty obvious that they were not delivering L5 at that time. Those who didn't comprehend that important point would be disappointed with their incorrect expectations.
Although, as of this morning, the price is still $10k.
Yes. I realized I wasn't sure if I selected FSD with my Model X order that is still outstanding. i checked and I hadn't but I was able to add it this morning at the $10k price.
Tesla listed 3 part guidance on delivery timeline on the FSD description page:
- 1) Delivery is dependent on software validation
- 2) Delivery is dependent on regulatory approval
- 3) Details of Tesla (robotaxi) network would be shared next year (2018)
All three proved out to be false (and Tesla did know at least 1 and 2 to be false at the time):
- 1) Software was yet to be developed, not merely lacking validation (state remains today 4 years later)
- 2) Regulatory approval was not even applied (state remains today 4 years later)
- 3) Robotaxi network details were not shared (state remains today 4 years later)
Retrospectively it is fair to call customers (like me), who trusted Tesla, naïve. That does not reduce the fact that Tesla misrepresented the product feature, took the money and has not delivered the purchase.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
1 and 2 are true. They are necessary conditions and the website doesn't say, and I (and others) didn't interpret it to say, that those were sufficient conditions. Appreciating the distinction between necessary and sufficient conditions is a good tool in life. Distinguishing between contract terms and puffery is another helpful tool. https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3542&context=faculty_scholarship
I read the same information and I was not expecting to get L4 or L5 at any certain time or really ever. I had AP when it first came out and was supposed to be only for highways, and it seemed the city and urban usage of FSD would make it more useful in the city, but still require supervision and not be autonomous -- as it clearly states on the website.
And looks like its still $10k
Last edited:
This was back in 2016 so along with the video you had Elon talking about Robotaxis.
So that's L4/L5.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I'd say the search and park requires L4/L5 as it doesn't say you have to chase after your car to watch it park itself.
I'm not sure we can make much of the text by itself as its full of things we already know not to be the case.
The 4 cameras to 8 cameras was just non-sense that never came true as it was nutty
The whole snake charger was never released anywhere despite how awesome this would be for disabled folks.
What the text is evidence of is Tesla just makes things up as they go.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You are arguing the wrong thing … I was telling OP about L3/L5 - not what Tesla said they would achieve in the future.
I think we can all agree that Tesla was selling autonomous driving
And I think we can all agree that Tesla was selling us what they would achieve in the future as none of the feature sets of FSD in late 2016 were available.
It's been 5 years since that video, and they don't have anything as shown in the video or in the description.
The OP made this statement about it.
"the fact that Tesla misrepresented the product feature, took the money and has not delivered the purchase."
So going one by one.
Did Tesla misrepresent the product feature? In at least one spot they did (the 4 cameras versus 8)
Did Tesla take the Money? Yep
Has not delivered the purchase? Yep
But, there is a but.
There was never a promise date.
Can we assign a date based on reasonable expectations? I don't know as I'm not a lawyer. I don't owners will have much recourse in this country as we don't have strong consumer protection laws.
I do believe the FTC need to look into what happened to prevent this kind of thing in the future. I don't think large companies like Tesla should be allowed to sell HopeWare.
Or maybe they simply have to be transparent that it is HopeWare.
I don't feel like Tesla was transparent enough in that what they were selling was the attempt at autonomous driving. The interesting thing to me is I don't think it would have really changed how many people bought it had they been more truthful about what to expect.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
Looks like $12k now. No change in used vehicle pricing yet, though... interesting. I've been had!
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Yes, but not sure why you don’t get it.
I was responding to OP that L3 could also mean the car does all the driving with the driver in the driver’s seat. End of story.
L3 does not fit. End of story.
"THE PERSON IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT
IS ONLY THERE FOR LEGAL REASONS.
HE IS NOT DOING ANYTHING
THE CAR IS DRIVING ITSELF"
I wouldn't use that text to describe an L3 system as there are requirements beyond that for L3.
The only way for that text to be accurate is if its L4/L5.
The only way for that text to match the description under FSD which the OP also posted is L4/L5.
The only way the Robotaxis will work is if its L4/L5.
No matter how you cut it customers were given the impression that the goal for FSD was autonomous driving at L4/L5. In the context of when the video was posted everyone knew what Elon said about being about to summon your car across the country.
There is no going back and erasing the insanity of 2016.
There is no rationality that can be applied to 2016. We just lost our friggen minds.
n2mb_racing
Active Member
FYI. It looks like Tesla bumped the resale value of FSD by $2k as well. We'll see if that trickles down to the secondary market.
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