Cost of upgrade path (basic AP -> enhanced AP -> FSD)

[Dylan McNamee]

We have a 2023 MSLR with only basic AP. The trial of FSD just expired. We didn't use it much, so are likely to be interested in just enhanced AP. Some day, especially if FSD v12 is as good as it seems like it might be, we may be interested in upgrading to FSD. Right now AP is $6k, and FSD is $12k. If we went from basic -> AP for $6k, could we later upgrade to FSD for $6k? Any other tradeoffs to consider?

[Edit] further searches in this forum, I found this post that verifies the upgrade EAP -> FSD is $6k

 

[Scott Herbst]

yes 6K to upgrade from enhanced to fsd.....that was the path i took

 

[RTPEV]

[Edit] further searches in this forum, I found this post that verifies the upgrade EAP -> FSD is $6k

Yes, but it's anybody's guess what that cost will be in the future.

That said, my opinion is that useful FSD is still quite a ways off, so I wouldn't worry too much about that, and even then the subscription model may work out better for you. The only reason to buy (if you were not satisfied with its current performance) is to fend off any future price increases with the hope that it actually does become useful by the time you sell your car.

 

[Tronguy]

Um. A long time ago in a streamed shareholder meeting with all the bells, whistles, and corporate management present, Elon stood up and, amongst many other things, stated that the closer FSD got to full release, the more it was going to cost.

At the time there were people getting FSD, if memory serves, for around $2.5k-$4k.

As he went on, he mentioned that when Robotaxis came about, that would really crank up the value of the package to a buyer, and Tesla wasn’t going to let people have it for free.

So, I got mine for $4k several years back. And it’s up to $12k now. Is it gonna go up more if it gets seriously better? Good question.

And the general idea of the price going up isn’t all that crazy. Not much different than paying less for a house that isn’t built yet.

There are quite a few people (I’m not one of them) who think FSD, sans beta, is either years off, not in our lifetimes, or never. So, lots of arguments.

The last statement on the issue was some Tesla insider stating that a 100x reduction in interventions was coming in V12. The naysayers are already out in droves.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Tesla has also reduced the cost of FSD. It was $15k and it's currently $12k.

 

[OxBrew]

Um. A long time ago in a streamed shareholder meeting with all the bells, whistles, and corporate management present, Elon stood up and, amongst many other things, stated that the closer FSD got to full release, the more it was going to cost.

At the time there were people getting FSD, if memory serves, for around $2.5k-$4k.

As he went on, he mentioned that when Robotaxis came about, that would really crank up the value of the package to a buyer, and Tesla wasn’t going to let people have it for free.

So, I got mine for $4k several years back. And it’s up to $12k now. Is it gonna go up more if it gets seriously better? Good question.

And the general idea of the price going up isn’t all that crazy. Not much different than paying less for a house that isn’t built yet.

There are quite a few people (I’m not one of them) who think FSD, sans beta, is either years off, not in our lifetimes, or never. So, lots of arguments.

The last statement on the issue was some Tesla insider stating that a 100x reduction in interventions was coming in V12. The naysayers are already out in droves.

100x reduction in interventions is about 1000x too low for robotaxi. Needs 1 intervention per one million miles for robo taxi (vast oversimplification. Really needs to drive 100 million or a billion miles to verify the safety rate, or equivalent simulations. Thats to prove it can be safer than a human, in US humans average a crash every 200k miles. Thats a stupid low bar to set. My extended family has 4 minor crashes in 2 generations of driving, for a combined minimum of 4 million miles. I wont accept any AVs until they are safer than my family, so I think 1 minor crash per 1 million miles is a good starting benchmark, or 5x safer than the average driver.)

Its at roughly one intervention per 1-10 miles now, depending on who you ask.

It needs about a 100,000x to one million x improvement. It's not happening without self cleaning cameras. Why people keep buying it is gobsmackingly unbelievable.

 

[Dewg]

100x reduction in interventions is about 1000x too low for robotaxi. Needs 1 intervention per one million miles for robo taxi (vast oversimplification. Really needs to drive 100 million or a billion miles to verify the safety rate, or equivalent simulations. Thats to prove it can be safer than a human, in US humans average a crash every 200k miles. Thats a stupid low bar to set. My extended family has 4 minor crashes in 2 generations of driving, for a combined minimum of 4 million miles. I wont accept any AVs until they are safer than my family, so I think 1 minor crash per 1 million miles is a good starting benchmark, or 5x safer than the average driver.)

Its at roughly one intervention per 1-10 miles now, depending on who you ask.

It needs about a 100,000x to one million x improvement. It's not happening without self cleaning cameras. Why people keep buying it is gobsmackingly unbelievable.

For comparison, can you let us know what the safety rate is for the current human taxi fleet in the US? So we have some rates to compare apples to apples.

 

[EVRider-FL]

If you buy EAP now, you'll probably find it more economical to subscribe to FSD later if you decide you want it, rather than buy it outright. The subscription is $100/month if you have EAP. My previous Model S had FSD, but I only bought EAP for my current S because I didn't think FSD is worth it in its current state. I did subscribe to FSD for a couple of months for a road trip, which I will do again in the future.

 

[ifish]

Excuse me for not staying with a comment on the issue ,I don't know how to start a new Post.
I hope someone here can help me, I am currently in Key West Fl. at a rental condo for the winter without WIFI & My lease is up at the end of the month.
Instead of shipping my Model Y home to NJ, I 've decided to drive home if I can Download FSD can it be done at a supercharger ? there is one 20 miles away on the way home.

 

[Dewg]

Excuse me for not staying with a comment on the issue ,I don't know how to start a new Post.
I hope someone here can help me, I am currently in Key West Fl. at a rental condo for the winter without WIFI & My lease is up at the end of the month.
Instead of shipping my Model Y home to NJ, I 've decided to drive home if I can Download FSD can it be done at a supercharger ? there is one 20 miles away on the way home.

Easiest way is to use your cell phone as a Hotspot and connect the car to it.

 

[JulienW]

Excuse me for not staying with a comment on the issue ,I don't know how to start a new Post.
I hope someone here can help me, I am currently in Key West Fl. at a rental condo for the winter without WIFI & My lease is up at the end of the month.
Instead of shipping my Model Y home to NJ, I 've decided to drive home if I can Download FSD can it be done at a supercharger ? there is one 20 miles away on the way home.

Actually there is nothing to download. It is included in all software and already on your car. You just need to activate it by subscribe or buying it on your phone and then the MCU will reset and FSD will be active.

 

[Tronguy]

Excuse me for not staying with a comment on the issue ,I don't know how to start a new Post.
I hope someone here can help me, I am currently in Key West Fl. at a rental condo for the winter without WIFI & My lease is up at the end of the month.
Instead of shipping my Model Y home to NJ, I 've decided to drive home if I can Download FSD can it be done at a supercharger ? there is one 20 miles away on the way home.

First off: Check the version of software currently on your car. Almost all versions out there have FSD 11.4.9 baked-in, but not enabled. When you pay/subscribe, it gets enabled, no need to find a wi-fi or set up a hotspot.

Exceptions to the above:

• You've got a relatively old Tesla with HW 2.5. If you have that, you need to get the driving computer upgraded (it's free, if you're going with FSD), but that means a trip to a Service Center or, sometimes, a Mobile Tech.
• You haven't been keeping up with updates. If you wander over to Not a Tesla App at Tesla News, Latest Software Updates, Tesla Rumors and Tips and put your version in the search in the top right corner, it'll tell you what version of FSD you've got in there.

Many of the more modern Superchargers, but not all, have a TeslaService (I think) wi-fi SSID enabled and running. I think that that's there mainly so people can stream movies or games While They Wait, but I have actually gotten an update at one in South Carolina (I think) on the way back up north. If you pull out the app, go to Location, then select the Charging button, a bunch of Supercharger locations then shows up on the map display. Selecting one of those lets one know costs, how full it is, and all that, but if one scrolls down there's a list of icons for amenities at that Supercharger. The ones around here in NJ have a wi-fi icon; I just checked the one in Big Pine Key, FL. It didn't, but the one in Marathon, FL, further up, does. Pretty sure that any of those landline-based wi-fi's will far outspeed any phone hotspot one could name.

 

[JulienW]

• You've got a relatively old Tesla with HW 2.5. If you have that, you need to get the driving computer upgraded...

Model Y.

 

[ifish]

Model Y.

Wow, thanks all for the answers, no need to worry now. I'll drive.
I did it last year ,it took me 24hrs over 3 days but I had to steer about 4 hrs ; stops charging ,coffee hotel & the best part was the stop & go traffic where I only had to have my hand on the steering wheel

 

[Tronguy]

Wow, thanks all for the answers, no need to worry now. I'll drive.
I did it last year ,it took me 24hrs over 3 days but I had to steer about 4 hrs ; stops charging ,coffee hotel & the best part was the stop & go traffic where I only had to have my hand on the steering wheel

That's a heck of a trip you had there.

The SO and I are headed to Dallas next week to (hopefully) see the coming eclipse and meet up with close relatives for some hobnobbing. We're taking the bigger MY that has EAP, rather than the smaller M3 with FSD, since we want to grab everybody to go find restaurants and run back and forth to airports.

This isn't by any means our first rodeo with long distance travel on Teslas. EAP does a decent job on highways, changing lanes and all that. One's job is to supervise and look out for human maniacs and bad drivers, but not to handle the minutia of staying in lane and at speed. I find it restful. Especially since it's nearly impossible, on EAP or FSD, to run into somebody in one's blind spot.

 

[ifish]

That's a heck of a trip you had there.

The SO and I are headed to Dallas next week to (hopefully) see the coming eclipse and meet up with close relatives for some hobnobbing. We're taking the bigger MY that has EAP, rather than the smaller M3 with FSD, since we want to grab everybody to go find restaurants and run back and forth to airports.

This isn't by any means our first rodeo with long distance travel on Teslas. EAP does a decent job on highways, changing lanes and all that. One's job is to supervise and look out for human maniacs and bad drivers, but not to handle the minutia of staying in lane and at speed. I find it restful. Especially since it's nearly impossible, on EAP or FSD, to run into somebody in one's blind spot.

Does anyone know if & when we're supposed to get 1 wk free trial of FSD12

 

[Tronguy]

Does anyone know if & when we're supposed to get 1 wk free trial of FSD12

We are; it's supposed to be one month; and it's supposed to be with the version that has the 2024.x number on it. There's one (1) person with this on Teslafi, but the current guessing is that's in April sometime.

 

[KenBlub]

Will the month start from the day the update is downloaded or when activated by the user? Is it independent of 2024.3.6?

 

[Dylan McNamee]

Will the month start from the day the update is downloaded or when activated by the user? Is it independent of 2024.3.6?

We got it three days ago, and it appears that Tesla triggers the start of the trial at the software install time, because we got an email shortly after the install completed.

So far, it's been pretty amazing. We only enabled FSD 11 a couple times, weren't at all comfortable, and ignored it. FSD 12 is much more comfortable to use. Definitely needs the advertised supervision, but the fear of wacky surprises is waay lower. I'm not sure it's worth $6K to help Tesla train their student driver, but it is a source of head-shaking amazement.

 

[KenBlub]

Thanks. I saw the email after my post. Amazing to think this is probably the worst that FSD will now be in our lifetime