Well this is what drives down prices, competition, we'll wait and see.
Lucid Motors unveils the Air, a new luxe electric car with a 400-mile range
Lucid Motors unveils the Air, a new luxe electric car with a 400-mile range
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CHG-ON
Still in love after all these miles
I'm very happy about the competition. Lucid... I'll believe it when she comes out. A totally cool car, though.
But what we really need is for the big boys to enter the fray. If Merc, BMW and Audi really do enter in a serious way, it will force Tesla to truly up their game, which I am confident they can do as they mature. Their hiring of the Audi production head tells us how serious they are. Personally, I think GM and Ford are in the D-league right now and are not a concern for me. But a pure EV S Class or A8 could really shake things up. I'm not convinced about the 7 Series yet. The I3 and I8 seem like follies to me. Though I applaud the work the work they are doing.
The fact that the MS is outselling the S Class (the undisputed king of the hill), 7 Series and Audi A8 shows just how truly impressive the MS is. Especially when we consider that the MS doesn't have nearly the creature comforts of the others. I think that really says something.
I hope and have betted that they can do it.
But what we really need is for the big boys to enter the fray. If Merc, BMW and Audi really do enter in a serious way, it will force Tesla to truly up their game, which I am confident they can do as they mature. Their hiring of the Audi production head tells us how serious they are. Personally, I think GM and Ford are in the D-league right now and are not a concern for me. But a pure EV S Class or A8 could really shake things up. I'm not convinced about the 7 Series yet. The I3 and I8 seem like follies to me. Though I applaud the work the work they are doing.
The fact that the MS is outselling the S Class (the undisputed king of the hill), 7 Series and Audi A8 shows just how truly impressive the MS is. Especially when we consider that the MS doesn't have nearly the creature comforts of the others. I think that really says something.
I hope and have betted that they can do it.
ev-now
Member
Interesting that. I think that tells you that a long time ago those guys got complacent and started adding BS toys which are fun for the first 5 minutes and then forgotten. When did any of those lines introduce a 'wow' feature in recent years? But the torque and different toys in the Tesla, clearly that's resonating. As you say things will get very interesting when those three get in the game for real, and the German government is driving them there as quickly as they can.
I wonder whether the luxury sedan market has had it's 'Swiss Watch' market. The Swiss owned watches, until they failed to address quartz movement which was catastrophic. Not content with that miss, they have all but missed 'Smart Watches' - albeit that game is yet to play out. Yes there is a very high end Swiss watch market - but they used to control the whole market. I wonder whether Germany missed it's chance to own electric, and with momentum elsewhere they find themselves permanently off the top of the luxury sedan mantle.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
That is some future down market version($65k with smaller battery pack) available in 2021 at the earliest.
100 kWh battery pack 300 mile + range version starts at $85k with ASP well above $100k and fully loaded 130 kWh pack 400 mile range version $160k.
They are hoping for 8-10k deliveries in 2019 and another 8-10k deliveries in 2020. Scaling up to the maximum of their Casa Grande Factory of 130k units per year. Prices are also targets/hops.
Whether they reach retail prices and specification targets remains to be seen.
No Supercharger Network or even limited Service Center network.
My guess is they will try to open stores in the very largest Metro Areas with highest density of luxury cars first like Tesla did with the Roadster. LA,SF, Seattle,Houston,Dallas,Chicago, NYC,Miami, and Atlanta. And maybe add Phoenix since they have their factory in Casa Grande AZ and are getting incentives from Arizona.
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I don't think you can compare to true Swiss watches such as Patek Phillipe etc. The value in those watches are the materials, complex engineering to display different data mechanically, and the man hours of the person who put it together. Just like exotic vehicles aren't going anywhere even if they don't embrace electric.
I don't see any new electric vehicle company deploying their own fast chargers. They will all jump on whichever is the accepted standard, seems like CCS. The good will be that they eventually should be easy to find, the bad will be you'll be stuck waiting on earlier EV's that will take hours to top off.
ev-now
Member
My point was they owned the whole market (well probably 80% of all quality watches) and are now exactly as you suggest, niche 'exotics' and many/most people never get a Swiss watch these days. As for ICE exotics not going away - depends on what the rest of western government do in their attempts to focus on climate (right or wrong, not starting that one here). ICE exotics may simply be track cars in the future.
Just like Fisker. great design and an epic failure. large scale companies like BMW, Benz, Audi, Kia,.Hyundai will have Electric cars in time and have enough saturation to handle it. New comers will most likely die out or dreams. I would not shocked me to see Kia and Genesis line catch up to high end based on what they offer for the money. the hybrid 2018 Genesis is stunnino.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
The Swiss Watch Industry is doing just fine. Less units more revenue.
As far as ICEv exotics go I doubt Western governments will care very much about Ferrari,911 Turbos, and other $150k plus ICEv. It is not a material issue regarding climate change nor local air quality. Nor Classic nor Vintage cars. Tax gasoline so it is $100/gallon in current dollars and people will use ICEv as society wishes. As weekend toys that make no material difference to the environment because of the cost and availability of gasoline. At $100/gallon there are no more gas stations for even super rich pricks to commute in their Hummers. A specialty item available in 5 gallon drums at specialty stores or shipped to you over the internet.
It's possible although more than likely they would be grandfathered due to being classics. I can see ICE cars prohibited in city centers in some countries within the next decade but I doubt there will be a country wide ban on already registered ICE cars any time soon
Thanks for the data points, I was just in Geneva , I liked Zurich better. I would like to argue that if gasoline taxation doesn't change much it will become cheaper and cheaper due to the glut of less ICE vehicles , and then increase in price dramatically when the production is scaled back due to the lower profits.
The Swiss Watch Industry is doing just fine. Less units more revenue.
As far as ICEv exotics go I doubt Western governments will care very much about Ferrari,911 Turbos, and other $150k plus ICEv. It is not a material issue regarding climate change nor local air quality. Nor Classic nor Vintage cars. Tax gasoline so it is $100/gallon in current dollars and people will use ICEv as society wishes. As weekend toys that make no material difference to the environment because of the cost and availability of gasoline. At $100/gallon there are no more gas stations for even super rich pricks to commute in their Hummers. A specialty item available in 5 gallon drums at specialty stores or shipped to you over the internet.
ev-now
Member
RobStark
Well-Known Member
I was a young lad in the 70s so I don't know how many young men aspired to a quality Swiss watch back in the day.
I own about two dozen Swiss watches. Some as cheap as $100( a basic generic eta movement from one of the newer smaller brands) while my Panerai cost about what a Toyota Camry I-4 cost. Anybody with a job that wants a Swiss mechanical watch can afford one you just have to go online. You are looking at about $1k for the least expensive one at the jewelry store.
I fully expect once smart watches become passe, and all tech eventually does, there will be a rebirth in interest among younger men. In any event there is still heavy interest among millennial men in the surging middle income countries. I suspect Swiss watch companies don't much care if they have $100B in revenue from 1B units per year or $100B in revenue from 1M units or if 50% of their sales are in the USA or in China.
I own about two dozen Swiss watches. Some as cheap as $100( a basic generic eta movement from one of the newer smaller brands) while my Panerai cost about what a Toyota Camry I-4 cost. Anybody with a job that wants a Swiss mechanical watch can afford one you just have to go online. You are looking at about $1k for the least expensive one at the jewelry store.
I fully expect once smart watches become passe, and all tech eventually does, there will be a rebirth in interest among younger men. In any event there is still heavy interest among millennial men in the surging middle income countries. I suspect Swiss watch companies don't much care if they have $100B in revenue from 1B units per year or $100B in revenue from 1M units or if 50% of their sales are in the USA or in China.
CHG-ON
Still in love after all these miles
You are SOOO right about the watches! It was sad to see that happen. But they asked for it. The US auto market did the same when they thought Japan was a joke. And even after getting hammered for decades, they still couldn't figure out and had to be bailed out by Uncle Sam!
I bought one American built car in 1991. It was crap and I vowed to to never do it again. I had only had German and Japanese up until then. When I realized that I had bought another American car in the Tesla (yes, I knew...) I was both stunned and thrilled. The Tesla is a different animal altogether. But I really hope the US makers continue to improve and can become a global force again.
