WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
That level of paranoia is really, really unhealthy. You do know Tesla can track and know exactly where you are at all times?
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Garage door opener
- Thread starter EMTM3
- Start date
That level of paranoia is really, really unhealthy. You do know Tesla can track and know exactly where you are at all times?
DMLou
Member
I work in computers. I know cyber security. I follow a lot of cyber security news. It's not paranoia when you know how bad things are under the covers. All the "Internet of Things" gadgets on the market are horrible when it comes to security. I could start running down a list of every time Ring has been hacked (I believe it was actually in the news recently), or problems Nest has had, or take your pick...
Sometimes, yes, I knowingly sacrifice some of my privacy or whatever if I feel the net benefit is worth it. Other times, I think it is not and I avoid those products if I feel like it's not worth it.
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
Perhaps not so ironically, I also work in computers. Part of my job involves actually setting up security systems. I would really love to hear your logic for avoiding Nest thermostats, – are you afraid of someone setting your central heating to 90°F while you’re out?
I still say it’s paranoia. You are really missing out on some absolutely amazing technology.
Vanteer
Member
Just what I did. But I used a strip of Velcro. Easy to remove to replace the battery. I put mine bottom left. Drive up, reach under. Push the button, door opens.
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
Me too. Both are some of my favorite purchases, ever.
I think we need a Nest subsection of this forum, no?
SíMe too. Both are some of my favorite purchases, ever.
I think we need a Nest subsection of this forum, no?
DMLou
Member
Actually, in the cast of Nest thermostats, it's more along the lines of it becoming an expensive brick once Google decides to drop support for them.Perhaps not so ironically, I also work in computers. Part of my job involves actually setting up security systems. I would really love to hear your logic for avoiding Nest thermostats, – are you afraid of someone setting your central heating to 90°F while you’re out?
I still say it’s paranoia. You are really missing out on some absolutely amazing technology.
And my pipes freezing in the dead of winter as a result. Although I'm interested in the Ecobee thermostat as it looks like it should work without any sort of cloud service that may get unplugged at any time. Even then, I'd probably install an el-cheapo dumb thermostat somewhere in the house as a backup just in case the smart one fails for some reason.To be fair, I have a bit more faith in products put out by actual tech companies actually getting security right as they will usually release updates, patches, and so on. It's the internet connected crap from non-tech companies that I worry about. I mean, it can result in this scenario being real:
Phone call: "Is your refrigerator running?"
You: "Umm, yes."
Phone call: "Well, you'd better unplug it because it's attacking France!"
This is not hyperbole. There was actually a botnet last year, Mirai, that hacked unpatched internet-connected consumer products to launch denial of service attacks. And many of those products were never properly patched and never will be.
The Nest will still work as a normal thermostat without cloud functionality.Actually, in the cast of Nest thermostats, it's more along the lines of it becoming an expensive brick once Google decides to drop support for them.
To be fair, I have a bit more faith in products put out by actual tech companies actually getting security right as they will usually release updates, patches, and so on. It's the internet connected crap from non-tech companies that I worry about. I mean, it can result in this scenario being real:
Phone call: "Is your refrigerator running?"
You: "Umm, yes."
Phone call: "Well, you'd better unplug it because it's attacking France!"
This is not hyperbole. There was actually a botnet last year, Mirai, that hacked unpatched internet-connected consumer products to launch denial of service attacks. And many of those products were never properly patched and never will be.
all I did was to change over to google and everything was transparent.....I can still use the Nest app or the google app....in addition, I c an speak to the google assistant and get things done......am I happy about it....NO.....I liked being associated Nest, but it is what it is....sorry your have troublesActually, in the cast of Nest thermostats, it's more along the lines of it becoming an expensive brick once Google decides to drop support for them.
To be fair, I have a bit more faith in products put out by actual tech companies actually getting security right as they will usually release updates, patches, and so on. It's the internet connected crap from non-tech companies that I worry about. I mean, it can result in this scenario being real:
Phone call: "Is your refrigerator running?"
You: "Umm, yes."
Phone call: "Well, you'd better unplug it because it's attacking France!"
This is not hyperbole. There was actually a botnet last year, Mirai, that hacked unpatched internet-connected consumer products to launch denial of service attacks. And many of those products were never properly patched and never will be.
DMLou
Member
Not very well, apparently: Nest Thermostat Glitch Leaves Users in the Cold
And there have been other issues with losing features: Nest's Hub Shutdown Proves You're Crazy to Buy Into the Internet of Things
The first link detailed a now fixed bug, and the second says exactly what I did. If the cloud service shuts down you lose cloud functionality, i.e. the ability to control it with the app. You can still walk up to it and change the temperature just like any non-smart thermostat.
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
Actually, in the cast of Nest thermostats, it's more along the lines of it becoming an expensive brick once Google decides to drop support for them.
To be fair, I have a bit more faith in products put out by actual tech companies actually getting security right as they will usually release updates, patches, and so on. It's the internet connected crap from non-tech companies that I worry about. I mean, it can result in this scenario being real:
Phone call: "Is your refrigerator running?"
You: "Umm, yes."
Phone call: "Well, you'd better unplug it because it's attacking France!"
This is not hyperbole. There was actually a botnet last year, Mirai, that hacked unpatched internet-connected consumer products to launch denial of service attacks. And many of those products were never properly patched and never will be.
Oy. I don’t know where to start with this. Firstly, every company, tech or otherwise, has bugs in their products. That you’re concerned about your thermostat dying in the winter and your pipes freezing, but again - you drive a highly-driven software on wheels - boggles my mind.
Also, redundancy is an amazing thing. I have other devices that will let me know if temperatures rise/fall below set thresholds etc etc.
Also, Google isn’t dropping support for Nest, likely ever. And their thermostats aren’t expensive enough to be considered expensive bricks even if Google did drop support. And if they did drop support you can absolutely be assured your thermostat will still work, and that Google would issue one more software update so that the thermostat works completely in an offline state without any messages/errors.
Quite frankly, I need my thermostat to be online. And so should you. The ability to have the temperature drop during the day when you’re not home - to save the damn planet, and be able to have it warm up before you get home. We drive Teslas! Connected, smart technology runs through our veins!
DMLou
Member
Only that exact thing did happen. Well, okay, the pipes may not have frozen, but it did die in the middle of winter (though not to me as I don't own one).
And yes, every tech has bugs in their products. That goes without saying. Of course, I want to buy tech from a company that actually fixes their bugs when they are found out. To be fair, Google/Nest up until now has done so. So has Tesla. However, your typical smart gadget company does not. Hell, it's hard to get patches/bug fixes for smartphones by anyone other than Apple or Google (although Samsung has gotten better about this in recent years).
True. Which is why if I were to get a smart thermostat (and I've been looking into just which one to get), I'd install a plain ol' dumb one somewhere near my furnace as a backup in case it goes wacky.
This is Google. They've dropped support for multiple products already in their history. And they've already dropped support for Nest Hub.
Umm, I have a programmable, non-networked, Honeywell thermostat that I bought 13 years ago that does all that. Yeah, it doesn't figure out what time I leave and return automatically, but my schedule is regular enough that it gets the job done.
I am looking at something that's a bit smarter, true. Something that may be able to better adjust to my schedule if it becomes irregular. But Nest isn't one I'm considering due to those issues I already mentioned. Ecobee is one I'm considering. Honeywell also has a smart thermostat that my HVAC guy says is very popular with his other customers.
Kennymb5384
Member
If I was worried about my Nest thermostat or garage door being hacked, I probably would have stayed away from the 4,000lb driving computer
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
The Nest Hub was a giant waste of time, as is lots of things Google put out (like the Stadia). You can’t compare their thermostats which have bazillions of owners to the Nest Hub, which Google couldn’t even give away free with cornflakes.
Yes, you can program offline thermostats to do whatever at whatever time. But what if you go away for a week or two. I like being able to remotely disable or enable things, keep tabs on the temps in my house etc.
Your problem seems to be more with fly-by-night companies rather than big business like Google/Apple etc. I’ve no argument with that. But why you think Ecobee is a safe solution and Google isn’t - is beyond me.
DMLou
Member
I'd add Samsung to the list of companies that I wouldn't consider safe, at least for things like smart TVs and refrigerators. Heck, it's only fairly recently they've gotten their act together on smart phones. Going back to the original discussion, I'd consider garage door companies like LiftMaster to be just as bad as any "fly by night" company when it comes to keeping their tech patched and updated. History shows that they have no clue (not LiftMaster in specific, but non-tech companies putting their gear on the internet in general). Google and Apple at least patch their products for as long as they support them. Most internet-of-things companies, big names or not, don't ever patch them.
Ecobee is "safe", as far as I can determine, as it offers smarts without the cloud connectivity. It's cloud connectivity that I'm skeptical about as products that require it are either useless once the cloud connectivity goes away or, at the very least, no better than "dumb" devices that are a fraction of the cost. A smart thermostat whose only connection is to my local network and not some outside entity is what I'd want. Some of the Honeywell products also seem to offer similar functionality. That said, I wouldn't use a Honeywell product that connects to the cloud either for the same reasons I don't trust Samsung's smart fridges.
I mean, I'm also someone who would never use the "smart" features of a smart TV. I'd keep it off my network and instead hook up a home theater PC to handle all those smart functions.
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
What exactly are you worried about with the garage door opener? They don't have my address or anything, so if they're messing with my garage, I'd know immediately due to notifications, and it's not as if they know where I live. I'm WAY more worried about the car and my home address stored there than I am Liftmaster.
DMLou
Member
Are you sure you'd know immediately? I mean, if they can get in, they can disable notifications as well. Heck if I was someone hacking someone's garage door opener, disabling notifications would probably be the absolute first thing I'd do before anything else.
Admittedly, you are right in that the risk of garage door break-ins via internet are probably no worse than more old fashioned means. It's more the other havoc that may be caused, ranging from my opener being used for DDoS attacks, hackers installing packet sniffers on the opener, pranksters finding some way to permanently brick it remotely, pranksters opening my door while I'm away from home in a way that doesn't trigger notifications, and so on. Especially since Liftmaster (not to single them out, but they are a garage door opener company, not a tech company, and fall into the same traps as other non-tech companies trying to get their wares on the Intartubes) is highly unlikely to take network security seriously.
WilliamG
Hinge Fanatic
Yep. Paranoia.
Honestly, if someone is going through that much effort to get into my garage/house, I’ll leave the keys to the safe on the table. They earned it.
I assume you don’t have that keypad outside the garage? 4-digit number to get into your house?? MADNESS? How do you sleep at night knowing someone can get in that easily!
