Green Hydrogen

[mspohr]

H2Pro's dollar-a-kilo green hydrogen: a 20-year leap in clean energy?

Israeli company H2Pro claims its highly efficient water-splitting technology will deliver green hydrogen at less than US$1 per kilogram before 2030. That's a big deal; it would represent a 60-80 percent drop in green H2 prices, down to a level where it's cheaper per unit of energy than current…

newatlas.com

In a promotional video, H2Pro says its E-TAC water splitting process is "the first technology to deliver energy efficiency of 95 percent ... compared to 70 percent of water electrolysis." The E-TAC devices, it says, are "inexpensive ... scalable, safer, and operate at higher pressure ... By 2023, we will deliver hydrogen at under US$2 per kilogram, and later this decade, at under US$1." A press release further clarifies: "coupled with anticipated reductions in the cost of renewable energy, H2Pro's technology will enable $1/kg green hydrogen at scale – making it the world's lowest cost green hydrogen."

The cheapest green hydrogen on the planet: that would be massive. Currently, it's already possible to produce "gray" or dirty hydrogen for US$1-1.80 per kilogram through steam reforming using natural gas – a process that emits CO2. H2Pro, on the other hand, is a water-splitting technology, so its emissions impact will depend on what energy source is used to produce it. Getting to US$1/kg with green energy would make this nothing less than a revolutionary technology in the long uphill climb towards zero global emissions.

 

[mspohr]

Hydrogen Folly Grows: 55% Used In Oil Refineries — Demand Will Drop, Not Rise - CleanTechnica

Governmental expenditures on hydrogen should be very carefully targeted to displace black and gray hydrogen in non-oil and gas markets with green hydrogen.

cleantechnica.com

Governments are putting billions into the promise of the hydrogen economy, prodded by oil and gas lobbyists, as pointed out in CleanTechnica in different pieces recently. Germany is committing $10.76 billion. Canada is committing $1.2 billion (USD). One source suggests that the EU’s total commitment is in the range of $250 billion, given 0.5 euros per capita. The numbers are obviously attracting attention, and naturally the traditional press is getting many things wrong.

Eric Reguly, European Bureau Chief for Canada’s Globe and Mail, gets it more right than not in a piece published yesterday, “The myth of the green hydrogen revolution.” He does provide context for the current size of the global hydrogen market, but misses the mark on what hydrogen is actually used for today, and why the market will actually shrink. So does everyone else, to be fair.

In its The Future of Hydrogen report from 2019, the IEA let slip one of the other dirty little secrets of clean, green hydrogen: the majority of it is used in the petroleum industry in refineries, and that’s been the major source of market growth for the past 30 years.


That’s right, the global $120 billion annual market in hydrogen is 55% devoted to refining petroleum products.

 

[mspohr]

The 3 Big Problems With Hydrogen Hype - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! Mike Barnard wrote a great piece yesterday on the hydrogen folly. As I was going through it, and building on months (or years) of reading, listening, and thoughts on this topic, I just decided ... [continued]

cleantechnica.com

Just note that these skip the whole efficiency problem, which is an underlying reason for why hydrogen isn’t sensible on a physics of economics level.

First of all, it’s a big money grab, as far as I can tell. Hype about hydrogen, and an idyllic hydrogen economy, and green hydrogen fields forever may seem harmless on the surface. But the hype turns into something — generous subsidies from governments around the world.

Problem #2: investors are being duped. Money talks. If oil & gas majors can hold investor interest longer with promises of ponies and hydrogen pipelines, they can prop up their core oil & gas businesses even as their futures look increasingly dim.

Problem #3: the complacent consumer. The hydrogen hype does also hurt real-world action on the consumer side.

 

[SwTslaGrl]

An older steel producer and a startup in Sweden are investing in green steel. They plans to replace coal in steel production with H2, the byproduct will be H2O instead of CO2. Also use green energy production, we have almost only hydropower, wind and some nuclear in Sweden. This could be a reasonable use of H2.

Fossil free steel

The world´s first fossil-free steel from SSAB is ready for the market on a commercial scale in 2026. Become a partner for change with us today!

www.ssab.com

H2 Green Steel

H2 Green Steel will produce green steel, reducing CO₂ emissions with up to 95 percent compared to traditional steelmaking.

www.h2greensteel.com

 

[nwdiver]

I hope that we get some tax credits for H2 soon. I keep thinking how insane it is that we're wasting so much engineering talent on nuclear when they really need to be focusing on bringing the cost of electrolyzers down.

 

[roblab]

Big Oil Is Fueling The Hydrogen Rush

Well, there you go. If big oil is pushing it, you know it's a scam. Nothing beats the cost of solar, especially when you factor in the carbon footprint, and hydrogen is not a fuel, it's a storage medium. You've got to separate the water molecule, pull out the hydrogen, then burn it to make water again. It doesn't exist free in nature.

 

[nwdiver]

This looks interesting. Round Trip Efficiency is only ~50% so probably not a good solution for daily use.

Lavo Hydrogen Battery

 

[Darmie]

Big Oil Is Fueling The Hydrogen Rush

Interesting term, "greenwashing". Yes, now we know the real truth of who's behind the idea. I often thought it was weird that an oil pushing President, Bush 2 was always behind the hydrogen movement. Now the truth comes out.

 

[mspohr]

This looks interesting. Round Trip Efficiency is only ~50% so probably not a good solution for daily use.

Lavo Hydrogen Battery

That's the fundamental problem with hydrogen. Physics.

 

[iPlug]

For the Lavo Hydrogen Battery, it looks like purchase price of AUD $34,750 and usable capacity of 40 kWh comes to ~$660 USD/kWh. Not bad there compared to the competition. Of course, installation costs would be significant too.

Another issue we covered on this product before IIRC is power max continuous is 5 kW. So while this might be great for peak shaving, it wont have the power for most homes to go whole home backup with just one unit.

 

[mspohr]

For the Lavo Hydrogen Battery, it looks like purchase price of AUD $34,750 and usable capacity of 40 kWh comes to ~$660 USD/kWh. Not bad there compared to the competition. Of course, installation costs would be significant too.

Another issue we covered on this product before IIRC is power max continuous is 5 kW. So while this might be great for peak shaving, it wont have the power for most homes to go whole home backup with just one unit.

Considering you can buy LFP batteries for $100/kWh with a round trip efficiency of >90%, it's a bad deal. Physics.

 

[iPlug]

Considering you can buy LFP batteries for $100/kWh with a round trip efficiency of >90%, it's a bad deal. Physics.

Haven't seen that cost in an installable unit to compare to; please post if you have links.

For example:
LiFePo $950/kWh here

sonnen releases new 10-kWh home battery for $9,500

Agree, poor efficiency issue is a drag with Lavo. But if one has soooo much excess "free" solar for hours a day, that may be a relatively moot point.

 

[mspohr]

Haven't seen that cost in an installable unit to compare to; please post if you have links.

For example:
LiFePo $950/kWh here

sonnen releases new 10-kWh home battery for $9,500

Agree, poor efficiency issue is a drag with Lavo. But if one has soooo much excess "free" solar for hours a day, that may be a relatively moot point.

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

m.alibaba.com

 

[iPlug]

This product is no longer available.

This product is no longer available.

m.alibaba.com

Right, these are just the batteries and a low warranty source. We need to compare to the installable units.

For example, just looking at some similarly questionable quality Li Ion batteries, much cheaper than an installable unit:

Best Price Rechargeable Li Ion Battery 3.7v 2600mah 2800mah 3000mah 18650 Li Ion Battery Pack - Buy 18560 Li Ion Battery,Li Ion Battery,Li Ion Battery Pack Product on Alibaba.com

 

[mspohr]

Right, these are just the batteries and a low warranty source. We need to compare to the installable units.

For example, just looking at some similarly questionable quality Li Ion batteries, much cheaper than an installable unit:

Best Price Rechargeable Li Ion Battery 3.7v 2600mah 2800mah 3000mah 18650 Li Ion Battery Pack - Buy 18560 Li Ion Battery,Li Ion Battery,Li Ion Battery Pack Product on Alibaba.com

Oh! Installable units have a lot more variables. Hard to compare.
Try Outback Skybox $3500 + $1500 for 15 kWh batteries.

 

[nwdiver]

Considering you can buy LFP batteries for $100/kWh with a round trip efficiency of >90%, it's a bad deal. Physics.

They would need to be different use cases. What I would see is keeping ~100kWh of H2 hydrate maybe ~500kWh. The storage would need to be significantly (~90%?) cheaper per kWh than batteries to really pencil. Basically H2 would replace having a backup generator you'd use when the batteries are drained and there simply isn't enough sun to recharge them. I don't think H2 will ever replace batteries but it can supplement them. Instead of having 40kWh of batteries and a generator you can have ~20kWh of batteries and a fuel cell.

My off-grid system wasted ~15kWh today because it had no where to go. Getting 7kWh of H2 is only ~50% efficient but it's A LOT more than the 0 I got....

 

[mspohr]

Green Hydrogen Pokes At LNG, Hits A Nerve in Germany

The global LNG market is holding up for now, but Uniper's plans for a green ammonia and green hydrogen hub in Germany could shake things up.

cleantechnica.com

Fans of green hydrogen have had lots to cheer about over the past year or so, and it looks like they are just getting warmed up. Last week, the global energy firm Uniper announced that it has scrapped plans for a massive new liquefied natural gas terminal at Wilhelmshaven in Germany. Instead, the company will build an equally massive but less planet-killing green hydrogen hub at the site, with a green ammonia twist to boot.

 

[mspohr]

Biden-backed ‘blue’ hydrogen may pollute more than coal, study finds

The large infrastructure bill passed by the US Senate and hailed by Joe Biden as a key tool to tackle the climate crisis includes billions of dollars to support a supposedly clean fuel that is potentially even more polluting than coal, new research has found.

Blue hydrogen involves splitting gas into hydrogen and carbon dioxide and then capturing and storing the CO2 to ensure it doesn’t heat the planet. But this process involves the incidental release of methane, a potent greenhouse gas, and uses a huge amount of energy to separate and then store the carbon dioxide, some of which escapes anyway.

This means that the production of this hydrogen actually creates 20% more greenhouse gases than coal, commonly regarded the most polluting fossil fuel, when being burned for heat, and 60% more than burning diesel, according to the new paper, published in the Energy Science & Engineering journal.

 

[Brando]

Biden-backed ‘blue’ hydrogen may pollute more than coal, study finds

The large infrastructure bill passed by the US Senate and hailed by Joe Biden as a key tool to tackle the climate crisis includes billions of dollars to support a supposedly clean fuel that is potentially even more polluting than coal, new research has found.

Blue hydrogen involves splitting gas into hydrogen and carbon dioxide and then capturing and storing the CO2 to ensure it doesn’t heat the planet. But this process involves the incidental release of methane, a potent greenhouse gas, and uses a huge amount of energy to separate and then store the carbon dioxide, some of which escapes anyway.

This means that the production of this hydrogen actually creates 20% more greenhouse gases than coal, commonly regarded the most polluting fossil fuel, when being burned for heat, and 60% more than burning diesel, according to the new paper, published in the Energy Science & Engineering journal.

Why so many scams for government money? That is where the money is to scam. sad for wage earners who actually pay taxes.

 

[mspohr]

UK switch to hydrogen power ‘could add same emissions as 1m petrol cars’

Opting for hydrogen that is made using fossil fuels rather than renewable electricity could create up to 8m tonnes of carbon emissions every year by 2050, according to an analysis of government data. The figures show that the use of fossil-fuel hydrogen, or “blue hydrogen”, would create the same carbon emissions each year that more than a million petrol cars would produce, compared with using zero-carbon “green hydrogen”.