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Hi, I’m a short seller

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No problem on doing homework (CPA). What I’m questioning is how many capital raises are left, Like isn’t it good money chasing after bad at a certain point? I can point to the August 2017 bond issue that was subscribed at 5.3%, now yields 7.3%. That’s a huge downturn in a short period, so the next one is going to be at least that much.


Cpa allows you to see the balance sheet clearly. But also blinds you.

On paper, tesla is 100% perfect short. Sure fire way of making money. But every time I find a sure fire way of making money, the market rams something up my ass. It's a trap.

For a company to succeed, there's the finance side of things and then there's that something else. It's that something else that you are not seeing.

It's like when you first start a company. You tell everyone you are real, you will do this and do that. You fully intent to do it and the money is or isn't coming in, you don't know. From some ppl's point of view you are real, from others you are not. Until you reached sustainable success, your reality will just be in flux.

Long and shorts can only do one thing. Bet on it. Tesla lomgs are betting on the realization of a future that we want. Shorts are betting on making money from the ugly balance sheet.
 
Here ya go, no need to argue the short side anymore, Bloomberg has done a nice summary. Cute animation too. FUD machine is kicking into high gear now, shorts scared?

Tesla Doesn’t Burn Fuel, It Burns Cash
Feel free to point out anything they got wrong. I feel it’s pretty balanced. Essentially, they are in a bad spot financially, but all the other times this happened they were able to find capital.

I am simply betting this cycle doesn’t go on much further.
 
Feel free to point out anything they got wrong. I feel it’s pretty balanced. Essentially, they are in a bad spot financially, but all the other times this happened they were able to find capital.

I am simply betting this cycle doesn’t go on much further.

Since you asked, I'll let myself re-post:
The counter runs off:
bloomburger.PNG

And that number comes from:
cashFlow.PNG

The negative cash flow is due to Capital Expenditures which are defined as:
Capital expenditure, or CapEx, are funds used by a company to acquire, upgrade, and maintain physical assets such as property, industrial buildings, or equipment. CapEx is often used to undertake new projects or investments by the firm. This type of financial outlay is also made by companies to maintain or increase the scope of their operations.

Capital expenditures can include everything from repairing a roof to building, to purchasing a piece of equipment, or building a brand new factory.

Read more: Capital Expenditure (CAPEX) | Investopedia Capital Expenditure (CAPEX)
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So, only maintenance could be considered cash burn (even that is really an investment in future use), everything else is an investment/ asset.

If a company buys a factory: that is an asset, not a cash burn.
If a company installs a manufacturing line for a profitable production: that in an investment, not a cash burn.
 
What’s “Supercharger Revenue” on a vehicle with a lifetime of free supercharging? I may have barely passed the CPA (hung over), but to me that’s a lifetime of expenses paid by Tesla.
But to be fair, I recognize the Supercharger network as a “moat” for now.
OK, I should not say again that you might need to actually do your homework, considering that you're betting on failure. Were you not doing that, this point would be quite irrelevant.
Tesla has several distinct components for Supercharger monetisation, each of which has some permutations, and also several varieties of enabling technology:
First monetisation:
1. In the beginning of Superchargers nobody knew exactly what the process might be, and monetisation has evolved:
Free Supercharging For 60-kWh Tesla Model S: How A Lucky Few Got It
a. That makes it seem as though Superchargers had all expense and no revenue. Then, Tesla apparently allocated $2,000 for each produced car for their use, which was charged to COGS. Still older Model S and X have 'free' Supercharging for the life of the car. The accounting charges were de minimus, so have not been directly reported. The bear position clearly has grounds to question that open ended commitment.
b. Supercharger buildout advanced to cover most of Europe, much of China and Japan, not to mention the US and everywhere else Tesla is sold. That has become a larger cost for construction and operation. So:
-Model S and X changed to have Supercharging free for the first owner only, and new owners had to have a referral code to get that benefit.
-Model 3 has a pay for use model, as do Model S and X without a referral code.
-FWIW, Tesla Semi is to have a pay-for-use model also.
c. In some countries and some specific customer cases Tesla sells Superchargers that are then maintained. by the buyer. Prominent examples include Russia, Jordan, and several large Tesla taxi fleets (Amsterdam Schipol may be the most widely reported),
d. In other commercial use cases Tesla is transitioning to a pay-for-use model.
2. Establishing Superchargers as large commercial users becomes highly technical and has been totally ignored and unreported by almost everyone, but is perhaps the largest clue to how Tesla is managing Supercharger monetisation:
a. A notable feature is the steady conversion of many Supercharger sites to use solar power, while most sites have significant battery storage. Conventional wisdom vies this as a green idea to reduce long term electricity costs and gain plaudits with BEV fanatics.
b. The full story becomes highly complex and arcane. However it is absolutely obvious and hugely significant if one actually studies how commercial electricity pricing works. Luckily one specific case in Australia has been publicly and widely publicised:
Hornsdale Power Reserve
A month in, Tesla's SA battery is surpassing expectations
without going into the arcane details, the Hornsdale case is absolutely normal for electrical grid operation worldwide. At time when the grid has too much supply commercial users are paid to absorb the excess and maintain stability. At times of excess demand the same users are paid to supply energy to the grid. Tesla storage can react to these changes in milliseconds. By participating in such plans with Supercharger stations Tesla can reduce teh net cost of energy supply by very large percentages.

While Superchargers are not designed to be profit centres they are vastly more than they appear to be. If you read the Australian data, then think about how Supercharger installations with both photovoltaic electrical generation and battery storage can profitably support electrical grid stability. Finally, if you ignore the photovoltaic side and then consider massive Supercharger installations such as:
First look at world's largest Tesla Supercharger station in Shanghai, China
These have equally massive storage batteries that are grid connected, and are installed in large commercial complexes that have highly variable energy consumption, so those batteries can stabilise the commercial use. As you may know, BEV peak charging hours are cobra-cyclical with peak commercial energy use.

I am sorry that this response must be so long. FWIW, this is exceedingly superficial. It takes several weeks of research and analysis of commercial energy use and utility production/use cycles to begin to really understand this subject. if you do check out Tesla executive presentations over the years you'll discover that J. B. Straubel discussed this in detail in 2012, and Elon has too. Nobody but geeks and techies has paid attention.

If you do your research on this subject you might well discover that even Model 3 is really not the story, although it does qualify as very important. Tesla Energy is growing faster than cars and is becoming more important. Precisely zero securities analysts have troubled themselves to understand this, bulls and bears combined. That is natural because Tesla Energy is really a commercial and industrial category with nice sizzle from such products as Solar Tiles and Powerwalls. The sizzle is important, but pales in comparison to grid stabilisation products like Superchargers.

Finally, this is my opinion. You do not know me nor do you know if I am qualified to make these statements or even if they are true.
Doing direct research will show you why some very diligent investors are long Tesla. It will also explain why Tencent bought in. If you do that you'll possibly see why China is so important and why Superchargers are something entirely different than you have been thinking. You need not rely on my words.
 
It was over five years ago that I first learned about Tesla Motors and its cars, due to a newsletter recommendation from a Wall Street technical analyst who had been a guest on my financial news TV program before I retired. For several days I researched the company and Elon Musk. The contrarian in me was actually emboldened by the negative press, especially on Fox News, and all of the short selling interest. I then paid $38 each for my core shares. I still have most of them; some were sold to pay cash for a new home in July of 2016. Then in November of 2016 I bought SolarCity shares as an arbitrage play, due to confidence that Tesla would buy it. I decided to keep those shares that morphed into $187 Tesla shares later that month, leaving me with more shares than I had originally. I bought some more about a month ago at $260.

The awkward problem that short sellers have is trying to apply to Tesla the financial metrics more suitable for its established competitors. They cheer about “cash burning” which in the case of Tesla is actually “investment” by an innovative newcomer successfully disrupting long established capital intensive industries. Those competitors had a head start of a century, so Tesla needs to keep raising and investing capital to get up to speed and size. Wall Street bankers have confidence in Tesla and continue supporting it. Regarding guidance: unlike other CEO’s who sandbag, Musk aims it not toward financial analysts, but instead at his workforce as inspiration to achieve a difficult goal. It's the long run that matters to Musk, not quarterly reports. Meanwhile short sellers at forums like Seeking Alpha keep inspiring each other by gleefully sharing FUD that does not properly examine the context of a situation that is changing the world. That could be a setup for another short squeeze.
 
Here ya go, no need to argue the short side anymore, Bloomberg has done a nice summary. Cute animation too. FUD machine is kicking into high gear now, shorts scared?

Tesla Doesn’t Burn Fuel, It Burns Cash
Wow that report is by Dana Hull !! is this the same Dana Hull who we see here occasionally in TMC? or am I confusing with someone else?

Really? I thought she was the one sane voice in a sea of FUDsters in Bloomberg, or am I confusing with someone else?
 
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I have a question about cash burn:

According to bears, any cash spent by Tesla is “cash burn,” regardless of what value that cash produced. By that standard, all money spent on shorting TSLA is “cash burn”— not just their realized losses & mark-to-market losses, but their entire short positions.

So, how much more cash have shorts burned? And what do they have to show for it?
 
@danahull - is that really your article?

Bulls and neutral observers turning bearish is par for the course. But this has very cheesey graphics to start with, fit for an yellow journal. Every sentence drips with exaggeration and FUD. I am not questioning the main theme of the article that Tesla is spending a lot of cash that it needs to bring it in check, but the whole article including the headlines is so clickbaity and does not rise above Seeking Alpha quality.

I expected much better from Dana.
 
It's clear many short sellers of TSLA don't understand startups and venture capital. Usually publicly traded companies are past the startup phase, so traditional stock investors simply can't comprehend the losses they see on paper as anything but a failing company. But TSLA is a startup.

Basically all startups lose money at first. They have to invest in employees and developing IP and hardware for years before significant revenue. Software-only companies have lower overhead and faster turnaround. Companies like Tesla and Amazon "lose" money for so many years because capital investment is so intensive in those industries and because they want to grow to be YUGE. This is the modus operandi of many big startups.

If the money Tesla uses develops relevant technologies, manufacturing processes, and facilities that create valuable assets that eventually yield highly profitable returns, is that cash burn? No, that's assets. You have to stop being lazy, and start really assessing where Tesla truly is burning cash on waste vs. developing assets that are valuable in an EV future. So, tell me where they are truly wasting money, and I'll listen.

Otherwise, think of Tesla trying to jump as high as they can off a trampoline. They are going to stretch that sucker all the way down without breaking, to get the highest bounce up. You are just noting the stretch down, without actually pointing out any breaking.
 
It's clear many short sellers of TSLA don't understand startups and venture capital. Usually publicly traded companies are past the startup phase, so traditional stock investors simply can't comprehend the losses they see on paper as anything but a failing company. But TSLA is a startup.

Basically all startups lose money at first. They have to invest in employees and developing IP and hardware for years before significant revenue. Software-only companies have lower overhead and faster turnaround. Companies like Tesla and Amazon "lose" money for so many years because capital investment is so intensive in those industries and because they want to grow to be YUGE. This is the modus operandi of many big startups.

If the money Tesla uses develops relevant technologies, manufacturing processes, and facilities that create valuable assets that eventually yield highly profitable returns, is that cash burn? No, that's assets. You have to stop being lazy, and start really assessing where Tesla truly is burning cash on waste vs. developing assets that are valuable in an EV future. So, tell me where they are truly wasting money, and I'll listen.

Otherwise, think of Tesla trying to jump as high as they can off a trampoline. They are going to stretch that sucker all the way down without breaking, to get the highest bounce up. You are just noting the stretch down, without actually pointing out any breaking.
Tesla is 14 years old, something tells me you dont understand how venture capital works
 
Tesla is 14 years old, something tells me you dont understand how venture capital works
Something tells me that you don't understand how to do a startup, survive & thrive in a highly capital intensive industry. (Hint: not by looking for quick profits, but by investing heavily)

Something tells me you forgot that that it has been only 5 years since Tesla started mass manufacturing their products - (Hint: the next youngest company in this industry has been at it for over 50 years).

Something tells me that not all investors and VCs are looking for a quick hit&run on short term profits.

Most importantly: Something tells me you know all that, but still are playing the Shorters FUD & lies game.
 
...
Something tells me you forgot that that it has been only 5 years since Tesla started mass manufacturing their products - (Hint: the next youngest company in this industry has been at it for over 50 years).

Something tells me that not all investors and VCs are looking for a quick hit&run on short term profits.

...
You might have forgotten about Hyundai/1967, Geely/first vehicle 1998 and quite a few more. Companies such as BYD and Geely are by any definition successful auto manufacturing companies that began in Tesla-time. Admittedly those had much more external support than has Tesla and they did not begin by revolutionising motive force, update process and distribution at the same time. Still the last twenty years has seen pretty dramatic upheaval in the industry. Just think about the non-Tesla side:
London Taxi, Lotus owned by Chinese;
Volvo owned by Chinese;
Jaguar Land Rover owned by Indians;
Among the largest Daimler-Benz shareholders are Chinese and Arab interests;
GM's largest profit contributor appears to be China;
BMW, Daimler-Benz, GM and VAG are all doing major R&D in China.
It is vastly simplified and understanding reality by thinking Tesla is the only recent entrant that has been successful.

Tesla is heading in a similar direction with Tencent and Shanghai providing direct impetus with Beijing actively encouraging them.

None of that in any way diminishing the Tesla accomplishments. Perhaps it simply highlights how astonishing it is.
 
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