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Home Charger for 3 SR+
- Thread starter sgreenstonenj
- Start date
There is no drawback for an SR+ (assuming 240V charging) -- the onboard charger is limited to 7.7kW anyway. Of course if you have a friend with another vehicle visiting and that other car supports a larger on-board charger power rating then it's different (model 3 LR variants are limited to 11kW, recent model X and S support 16.5 kW, and older ones either 11kW or 22kW depending on the battery).
NOTE: I'm talking about amperage on the wire, not the rating of the circuit breaker and wiring, which should be greater by a factor of 1.25!
NOTE: I'm talking about amperage on the wire, not the rating of the circuit breaker and wiring, which should be greater by a factor of 1.25!
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That depends on the power ratings of its on-board charger, but IIRC that's 3.5kW.
Of course I am assuming that you're talking about 240V charging in the US. 32A over 110/120V is rather anemic.
If the Mini only supports charging over "household sockets" over 110/120V then you won't be charging it with the same solution as the Tesla if you want to fill both up at night.
Since these plugin hybrids have tiny batteries that's indeed often the only thing that is supported (usu NEMA 5-20 sockets that are keyed go up to 20A, and NEMA 5-15 sockets got to 15A) -- it's "good enough" for overnight charging. If I can believe the Mini documentation it charges only at 15A over 110/120V, so that would mean you just charge it in a NEMA- 5-15 household socket (on a group that is different from what you'd use for the Tesla).
UMC charging with the SR+ also does this at 1.8kW; that's not the max power rating you want for Tesla SR+ charging. With the UMC that you get with the Tesla, on 110/120V, you can buy the NEMA 5-20 adapter and it'll charge slightly "faster", but you really need 240V charging to make it possible to charge overnight.
The Mini can also be used with a Level 2 charger than uses a 240V NEMA 6-20R wall plug...what solution do you have now for that? And if so, how are you planning to use 240V on both? What is the capacity of the main 240V connection in your house?
Of course I am assuming that you're talking about 240V charging in the US. 32A over 110/120V is rather anemic.
If the Mini only supports charging over "household sockets" over 110/120V then you won't be charging it with the same solution as the Tesla if you want to fill both up at night.
Since these plugin hybrids have tiny batteries that's indeed often the only thing that is supported (usu NEMA 5-20 sockets that are keyed go up to 20A, and NEMA 5-15 sockets got to 15A) -- it's "good enough" for overnight charging. If I can believe the Mini documentation it charges only at 15A over 110/120V, so that would mean you just charge it in a NEMA- 5-15 household socket (on a group that is different from what you'd use for the Tesla).
UMC charging with the SR+ also does this at 1.8kW; that's not the max power rating you want for Tesla SR+ charging. With the UMC that you get with the Tesla, on 110/120V, you can buy the NEMA 5-20 adapter and it'll charge slightly "faster", but you really need 240V charging to make it possible to charge overnight.
The Mini can also be used with a Level 2 charger than uses a 240V NEMA 6-20R wall plug...what solution do you have now for that? And if so, how are you planning to use 240V on both? What is the capacity of the main 240V connection in your house?
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@sgreenstonenj Please read this too, since I realise that your original question was still ambiguous. The ratings of your wiring and circuit breaker are not what amperage you can pull over the wires if you want to comply with the electrical code, IIRC.
Does your Mini also do 240V charging? What is there from its L2 charger to your main 240V connection?
For 7.7kW, you need 32A. If you want to really pull 32A you'd better have 40 Amps wiring and a 40 Amps breaker on the shared 240V connection...if you have a 32A circuit breaker it's usually not recommended to pull more than 24 Amps over the connection.
If you have a 240V 40 Amp *breaker* IIRC electrical code means that you can't put anything except the SR+ Tesla on that circuit. Even if you put a LR on there if you use the correct adapters or HWC settings you won't be charging any faster, it's already maxed out at 7.7kW.
So I'll need to clarify, since you didn't mention whether in your original post you meant the amperage you wanted to pull over the wires or the capacity of the circuit breaker.
For an SR+ you want to pull 32A from the wall at 240V, which means a NEMA 6-50 or NEMA 14-50 plug and a 40 or 50 amp circuit breaker, IIRC (and you'll need to buy an extra adapter if you want to use the UMC that comes with the Tesla).
If you have a 32A circuit breaker then you probably have a NEMA 16-30 plug, and the SR+ will be limited to 24 Amps (giving you 5.7kW for charging).
If you currently have a NEMA 6-20R plug for the Mini and you want to use that for the Tesla, the adapter will limit amperage to 16A, so you'll be charging at only 3.8kW (i.e. at the speed of a L2 charger for the Mini, but with a much larger battery.)
If you have a 40 Amp breaker, then on that one 240V circuit behind the breaker you cannot safely charge both a Mini with a L2 charger and a Tesla SR+ at max amperage (3.5kW + 7.7kW =11.2kW). You'd have to either move the Mini to a household socket, have two circuits, one 60A breaker circuit, or limit the amperage on one or both cars.
Does your Mini also do 240V charging? What is there from its L2 charger to your main 240V connection?
For 7.7kW, you need 32A. If you want to really pull 32A you'd better have 40 Amps wiring and a 40 Amps breaker on the shared 240V connection...if you have a 32A circuit breaker it's usually not recommended to pull more than 24 Amps over the connection.
If you have a 240V 40 Amp *breaker* IIRC electrical code means that you can't put anything except the SR+ Tesla on that circuit. Even if you put a LR on there if you use the correct adapters or HWC settings you won't be charging any faster, it's already maxed out at 7.7kW.
So I'll need to clarify, since you didn't mention whether in your original post you meant the amperage you wanted to pull over the wires or the capacity of the circuit breaker.
For an SR+ you want to pull 32A from the wall at 240V, which means a NEMA 6-50 or NEMA 14-50 plug and a 40 or 50 amp circuit breaker, IIRC (and you'll need to buy an extra adapter if you want to use the UMC that comes with the Tesla).
If you have a 32A circuit breaker then you probably have a NEMA 16-30 plug, and the SR+ will be limited to 24 Amps (giving you 5.7kW for charging).
If you currently have a NEMA 6-20R plug for the Mini and you want to use that for the Tesla, the adapter will limit amperage to 16A, so you'll be charging at only 3.8kW (i.e. at the speed of a L2 charger for the Mini, but with a much larger battery.)
If you have a 40 Amp breaker, then on that one 240V circuit behind the breaker you cannot safely charge both a Mini with a L2 charger and a Tesla SR+ at max amperage (3.5kW + 7.7kW =11.2kW). You'd have to either move the Mini to a household socket, have two circuits, one 60A breaker circuit, or limit the amperage on one or both cars.
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As said above, it's unclear what you mean by "32 Amps": "pulling 32 Amps over the wires" or "the rating of the circuit breaker".
It would be best, if you already have a 240V connection, if you just said what rating the circuit breaker has, what plug or plugs you have, and what you intend to do with the Mini when you're charging the SR+. Plus what else would use the 240V connection.
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So, do you already have a 240V connection? If so, what is its amp rating?
And if there are other things on the 240V connection, you'd better make sure to have the proper type of RCD on it as well (whether it is an EV or B type RCD for the car or cars downstream, or a type EV or B replacing an earlier type A RCD).
That's because cars can have small DC leaks (not supposed to have them, but then if everything were always nominal you would never need RCDs and circuit breakers), and these can render Type A RCDs inoperative, which means that everything else that uses 240V in your house could also become unsafe (i.e. if 240V goes to ground through your body the RCD won't trip if there is also a small DC leak from one of the car's batteries).
Not sure I'm the expert in your local electrical code, of course -- you should ask locally.
And if there are other things on the 240V connection, you'd better make sure to have the proper type of RCD on it as well (whether it is an EV or B type RCD for the car or cars downstream, or a type EV or B replacing an earlier type A RCD).
That's because cars can have small DC leaks (not supposed to have them, but then if everything were always nominal you would never need RCDs and circuit breakers), and these can render Type A RCDs inoperative, which means that everything else that uses 240V in your house could also become unsafe (i.e. if 240V goes to ground through your body the RCD won't trip if there is also a small DC leak from one of the car's batteries).
Not sure I'm the expert in your local electrical code, of course -- you should ask locally.
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bwilson4web
hit the spot
As a general rule of thumb, the current load should be 80% of the circuit breaker/wire:
- 50A * 80% = 40A load (upper trims of Model 3)
- 40A * 80% = 32A load (also max current of Std. Rng. Model 3)
- 30A * 80% = 24A load
- 20A * 80% = 16A load
- 15A * 80% = 12A load
If you have a multi car garage I would wire it with 100A service, that way you can handle the future.
When I installed my charger I had them install 200A wires and equipment to the garage, so that in the future I can support 4 Teslas charging at the same time.
The cost difference between running 50A and running 200A was less then $250
And this way I never have to upgrade it again in the next 25 years
When I installed my charger I had them install 200A wires and equipment to the garage, so that in the future I can support 4 Teslas charging at the same time.
The cost difference between running 50A and running 200A was less then $250
And this way I never have to upgrade it again in the next 25 years
I don't have a 240 outlet yet. Electrician coming to give an estimate tonight. Was thinking 50 in the fuse box if not 100 for future proofing
If you are looking for a charger (EVSE) for both the SR+ and the Mini, ClipperCreek units are known as extremely well built and reliable. This unit would allow the electrician to install a 14-50 outlet in your garage, with either a 40A or 50A breaker on the panel, and you could plug the EVSE into that:
32A Level 2 EVSE HCS-40P with NEMA 14-50 | Clippercreek
That's probably the most flexible option, you could also forgo the 14-50 outlet and directly wire the unit below (same unit just without the plug), but that will make replacement more difficult if you ever decided you wanted something else:
32A Level 2 EVSE HCS-40 | ClipperCreek
If you are concerned about future-proofing, you can ask the electrician to make the wiring run with a higher gauge wire so you could just swap the breaker and the EVSE in the future if you want to increase the amperage. While you could install the larger breaker now, you will then need to purchase a more expensive EVSE that is rated for an 100 amp circuit (or whatever you decide to install). If you wanted to go that route, the Tesla HPWC is the most affordable option (I'm assuming you want a stand-alone EVSE, since I don't think the Mini comes with a 240v portable EVSE). If you went with the Tesla, you'd need an adapter like this to make it work with the Mini:
Tesla to J1772 Adapter
My recommendation is just have the 14-50 installed with higher gauge wire to support a future amperage upgrade, then get the first ClipperCreek unit I mentioned, plug it in and you'll be good to go!
32A Level 2 EVSE HCS-40P with NEMA 14-50 | Clippercreek
That's probably the most flexible option, you could also forgo the 14-50 outlet and directly wire the unit below (same unit just without the plug), but that will make replacement more difficult if you ever decided you wanted something else:
32A Level 2 EVSE HCS-40 | ClipperCreek
If you are concerned about future-proofing, you can ask the electrician to make the wiring run with a higher gauge wire so you could just swap the breaker and the EVSE in the future if you want to increase the amperage. While you could install the larger breaker now, you will then need to purchase a more expensive EVSE that is rated for an 100 amp circuit (or whatever you decide to install). If you wanted to go that route, the Tesla HPWC is the most affordable option (I'm assuming you want a stand-alone EVSE, since I don't think the Mini comes with a 240v portable EVSE). If you went with the Tesla, you'd need an adapter like this to make it work with the Mini:
Tesla to J1772 Adapter
My recommendation is just have the 14-50 installed with higher gauge wire to support a future amperage upgrade, then get the first ClipperCreek unit I mentioned, plug it in and you'll be good to go!
srs5694
Active Member
I'd say that @MrMassTransit's post has it right. Other posts are diving into the weeds a bit -- details of the proper sizing of wires vs. circuit breakers, etc., are certainly important, but if you're hiring an electrician, knowing those details is part of the electrician's job. (OTOH, if you hire a fly-by-night electrician, knowing these details will help you spot a problem before it burns your house down.)
Assuming the Mini Cooper plug-in hybrid can handle Level 2 (240v) charging, a stock J1772 EVSE is likely to be the best solution, unless you need to charge both cars simultaneously. The Model 3 SR+ maxes out at 32a (requiring a 40a circuit), so there's little or no point to getting an EVSE that can deliver more amperage. The best argument for a more powerful EVSE is that this would serve as future-proofing; however, for home charging, moving beyond a certain point in terms of amperage has diminishing returns. If you have a 100-mile round-trip commute, you'll replenish that range on a Model 3 in about 3 or 3.5 hours on 32a, vs. more like 2 hours at the maximum 48a the car can handle. Given that you're likely to be charging overnight, that doesn't look like an important difference to me. Thus, buying a more powerful EVSE now will give you no benefit now, and the benefit in the future, even if you eventually buy a Model S or something else capable of faster charging, will be small. Even if a future EV is less energy-efficient, and therefore takes more time to recover a given number of miles of charge, 32a is likely to be sufficient unless you need to get to 100% charge the morning after you return from a road trip with close to 0% charge.
FWIW, I own a Clipper Creek HCS-40 that I bought for a Chevy Volt. The HCS-40 was a "future-proof" purchase, but I leap-frogged its capabilities with my LR Model 3; I'm charging at "only" 32a, whereas my car can handle 48a. It's not worth the expense to replace the Clipper Creek with something faster. I've had my Model 3 for less than three months, but I don't expect my 32a EVSE will ever be too slow for my needs.
Assuming the Mini Cooper plug-in hybrid can handle Level 2 (240v) charging, a stock J1772 EVSE is likely to be the best solution, unless you need to charge both cars simultaneously. The Model 3 SR+ maxes out at 32a (requiring a 40a circuit), so there's little or no point to getting an EVSE that can deliver more amperage. The best argument for a more powerful EVSE is that this would serve as future-proofing; however, for home charging, moving beyond a certain point in terms of amperage has diminishing returns. If you have a 100-mile round-trip commute, you'll replenish that range on a Model 3 in about 3 or 3.5 hours on 32a, vs. more like 2 hours at the maximum 48a the car can handle. Given that you're likely to be charging overnight, that doesn't look like an important difference to me. Thus, buying a more powerful EVSE now will give you no benefit now, and the benefit in the future, even if you eventually buy a Model S or something else capable of faster charging, will be small. Even if a future EV is less energy-efficient, and therefore takes more time to recover a given number of miles of charge, 32a is likely to be sufficient unless you need to get to 100% charge the morning after you return from a road trip with close to 0% charge.
FWIW, I own a Clipper Creek HCS-40 that I bought for a Chevy Volt. The HCS-40 was a "future-proof" purchase, but I leap-frogged its capabilities with my LR Model 3; I'm charging at "only" 32a, whereas my car can handle 48a. It's not worth the expense to replace the Clipper Creek with something faster. I've had my Model 3 for less than three months, but I don't expect my 32a EVSE will ever be too slow for my needs.
If you want to charge an SR+ and the Mini both at full speed at the same time, you need at least a 60A fuse. And yes, higher would be better because if the Mini gets replaced by something with a more capable on board charger...
Some models of the Mini are delivered with this:
That plugs into a NEMA 6-20 for its max rate charging on 240V.
The Mini end is not J1772 -- IIRC that's a "real" standard IEC Level 2 connector (aka "Mennekes" over here). It looks like the US Model 3 connector, although I have no idea whether it's actually compatible for AC charging (IIRC the Tesla connectors on the S and X is a type 2 compatible connector for AC charging, but with DC charging supported on its pins using Tesla proprietary extensions).
In Europe it's easy -- a Model 3 also has a Type 2 (although it's a CCS Combo 2 with extra DC pins under the Type 2), and even the Tesla Wall Connector has a type 2 connector.
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@sgreenstonenj - Could you post a photo of the port on the Mini that you plug the charger into currently?
The mini I have decided I am going to keep plugged into the existing 110 outlet. Since it runs on both electric and gas, we charge it over night and its been fine.
Ours did not come with that contraption that @sixela posted above.
I am currently thinking, after meeting with the electrician, of going 240 for the Tesla, with a 50 amp thingy (I aint to electrically technical) in the fuse box.
He did ask for me to find out what the best adapter would be for the tesla and he will put that recepticle in for me. I am thinking 6-50?
Ours did not come with that contraption that @sixela posted above.
I am currently thinking, after meeting with the electrician, of going 240 for the Tesla, with a 50 amp thingy (I aint to electrically technical) in the fuse box.
He did ask for me to find out what the best adapter would be for the tesla and he will put that recepticle in for me. I am thinking 6-50?
I have nothing against the 6-50; it's a fine choice and, as has been mentioned, needs only 3 wires vice the 4 of the 14-50, slightly lowering cost.
However, I like the 14-50 because, when you buy the G2MC adapter for it, you now have admission to charge at virtually every RV park in North America, since almost all modern RV parks use 14-50 outlets and can supply 50 amps at 240VAC.
I, myself, charged at a nearby RV park near the AirB&B home I rented on my very first road trip in my AWD TM3. (The house's wiring lacked a ground, disqualifying it for 120V charging by my G2MC.)
Check out RV Parky | RV Parks & Campgrounds Directory, Reviews, Photos for all the new places to charge you'll have. Many are located where Superchargers and dedicated L2 chargers are not, meaning an hour or two at an RV park might allow one to cut a corner off of Supercharger route. Although, to be fair, with a 6-50, you could also seek out weld shops and such, since they commonly use the 6-50. On the balance, I think the RV network is bigger and already knows about EVs.
However, I like the 14-50 because, when you buy the G2MC adapter for it, you now have admission to charge at virtually every RV park in North America, since almost all modern RV parks use 14-50 outlets and can supply 50 amps at 240VAC.
I, myself, charged at a nearby RV park near the AirB&B home I rented on my very first road trip in my AWD TM3. (The house's wiring lacked a ground, disqualifying it for 120V charging by my G2MC.)
Check out RV Parky | RV Parks & Campgrounds Directory, Reviews, Photos for all the new places to charge you'll have. Many are located where Superchargers and dedicated L2 chargers are not, meaning an hour or two at an RV park might allow one to cut a corner off of Supercharger route. Although, to be fair, with a 6-50, you could also seek out weld shops and such, since they commonly use the 6-50. On the balance, I think the RV network is bigger and already knows about EVs.
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