Now we’ve got our first UK snow for a while, and because when I do eventually get in the market for MS I am going to have to consider rwd cars, I would be interested to hear how 2 wheel drive Model S owners are getting on in the conditions, or should I consider dual motor a necessity at the expense of all else?
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How is Model S in Snow?
- Thread starter Shinden
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Veritas1980
Electric Viking
I have no problem with my RWD in snow, however it’s my impression that the D will handle better.
You do need winter tires for the RWD in my opinion, but it may be colored by the fact everybody here is driving with winter/summer tires.
You do need winter tires for the RWD in my opinion, but it may be colored by the fact everybody here is driving with winter/summer tires.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
MS is heavy, that helps.
AWD helps with "go" but not with stopping of course, and that impacts cornering.
But we just fit Winter Tyres to all our vehicles. Even without snow its like Night and Day on cold-wet, let alone Winter icy, compared to ordinary tyres. When we go skiing driving up the Alps on fresh snow I get on much better in a FWD (let alone AWD) with snow tyres than people with chains, and Range Rovers and the like in Snow Mode (I know, because I drove up in tandem with someone in a Range Rover who had exactly that, and I was doing better than him!).
Just fit Winter tyres would be my answer, regardless of what vehicle.
AWD helps with "go" but not with stopping of course, and that impacts cornering.
But we just fit Winter Tyres to all our vehicles. Even without snow its like Night and Day on cold-wet, let alone Winter icy, compared to ordinary tyres. When we go skiing driving up the Alps on fresh snow I get on much better in a FWD (let alone AWD) with snow tyres than people with chains, and Range Rovers and the like in Snow Mode (I know, because I drove up in tandem with someone in a Range Rover who had exactly that, and I was doing better than him!).
Just fit Winter tyres would be my answer, regardless of what vehicle.
It's just fine if real winter tyres are fitted. If you live in an area that doesn't have much of a winter, then severe-service all seasons, such as Nokian WR-g3, work well. In my fifth winter now and no issues. A second set of wheels will make swapping summer to winter much easier.
culverwood
Member
75D with normal tyres works well on our long unsalted drive. As has been mentioned stopping is still the same.
cezdoc
Member
70 RWD, second winter and I've just spent a few days driving on slush, snow, and untreated hilly city side roads. No issues (well maybe one or two blinks of the traction control going uphill on packed snow) but this is the first car I've had where I invested in winter tyres.
On the plus side the traction control is good and you can feed in power very gently, so it's easier to control wheel spin and get going than with a manual ICE.
On the minus side it's a heavy car with wide tyres. You can mitigate the conditions by driving carefully but AWD on its own won't help you stop and in my experience that's the time you really benefit from help (imagine descending a steep hill to a road junction when there is a bit of snow/ice around).
There seems to be a never ending debate in the UK about whether it's worth changing to winter tyres or not due to our mild climate and the rarity of snow/ prolonged icy conditions. With a bit of care, and depending where you live, you might get away with the all seaon 19" tyres (I'd be more concerned with the low profile performance tyres). But for example today I was following a big RWD Merc saloon out of a snow-covered carpark and they got stuck on a gentle incline (it was getting icy due to lots of cars pulling away there and causing a bit of ice to form). They eventually managed to reverse back and get going with a bit of a run but I then followed on and the car just glided effortlessly up the slope. Translate that to an icy bend or emergency stop and I know which car/tyres I'd rather be in/on!
On the plus side the traction control is good and you can feed in power very gently, so it's easier to control wheel spin and get going than with a manual ICE.
On the minus side it's a heavy car with wide tyres. You can mitigate the conditions by driving carefully but AWD on its own won't help you stop and in my experience that's the time you really benefit from help (imagine descending a steep hill to a road junction when there is a bit of snow/ice around).
There seems to be a never ending debate in the UK about whether it's worth changing to winter tyres or not due to our mild climate and the rarity of snow/ prolonged icy conditions. With a bit of care, and depending where you live, you might get away with the all seaon 19" tyres (I'd be more concerned with the low profile performance tyres). But for example today I was following a big RWD Merc saloon out of a snow-covered carpark and they got stuck on a gentle incline (it was getting icy due to lots of cars pulling away there and causing a bit of ice to form). They eventually managed to reverse back and get going with a bit of a run but I then followed on and the car just glided effortlessly up the slope. Translate that to an icy bend or emergency stop and I know which car/tyres I'd rather be in/on!
That's why when it does snow and get icy like this past weekend cars get stranded and crash all over the place. Having spent many a winter in Western Canada I've long since embraced the advantages of winter tyres. I run winter tyres from late November through to April on all my cars. Difference in grip on a snowy road is night and day better as you would expect, but they also work better than summer tyres in all the non-snowy miserable cold and wet winter weather too. I've never understood why winter tyres (or at least all-season) are not mandatory over the worst winter months as they are in many parts of Europe and North America. Especially now summer tyres are increasingly wide, low profile, performance orientated affairs.
thegruf
Active Member
the advantages of winter tyres are obvious and not just for snow, but the reality is that for many areas of the UK ice/snow is all but unheard of these days, so investing in the tyres and the palaver of getting them swapped out twice a year plus storage is too much for most people.
The other side of the coin being that you can kit your car out with the best winter tyres, and still get absolutely nowhere as nobody else has bothered and you will just be stuck in traffic anyway; or worse still you manage to drive entirely safely whilst some muppet slides gracefully into your beloved Tesla that is both very costly and often time consuming to fix.
The other side of the coin being that you can kit your car out with the best winter tyres, and still get absolutely nowhere as nobody else has bothered and you will just be stuck in traffic anyway; or worse still you manage to drive entirely safely whilst some muppet slides gracefully into your beloved Tesla that is both very costly and often time consuming to fix.
Well that's exactly why the country was in chaos over the weekend after a little dump of snow. Causes a lot more hassle than swapping tyres twice a year, which is hardly a big deal. I'd take that over having to fix crash damage or being stuck at home any day.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I agree with @Peteski : Winter tyres perform better in cold temperatures ( <10C ) regardless of whether there is snow ...
Cold & Wet the stopping distance is really good. Presumably "summer rubber" is too cold to operate as well as it does when "warm and wet".
Bit of ice? now we are talking. Even on salted roads there is the risk of bits that got missed, or I turn off onto a rural road and brain doesn't switch over (Well ... mine doesn't
) or as @cezdoc said: you're in an icy/snowy carpark with an incline. I had that in the old days, FWD, had to turn around and go up backwards to get enough traction!And of course on the once or twice a decade when we get snow its no contest. But I think that people think they are buying them for Snow only and, not unreasonably, then decide "But that's only once in a blue moon".
Dunno what the tyre wear is between the two, but once you've paid for a set of Winters they are each going to do 6 months-ish a year, so overall the same number of replacement tyres.
thegruf
Active Member
trying to convince owners of 35m+ vehicles in the uk to buy a spare set of winter tyres for one or two snow events a decade is an impossible and impractical sell no matter how much I agree with the concept.
much simpler would be to require cars to carry "snow socks" along with the existing requirement for warning triangles etc.
perfectly effective for occasional use, and frankly drivers in accidents in snowy weather could be done for careless driving if the socks aren't fitted.
I realise this doesnt cover the the low temperature aspect of winter tyres but again purchasing, swapping out and storing a set of winter tyres for 6 months is just not a practical proposition for the majortiy of owners. Nothing to prevent the savvier drivers who can afford to do so though.
and btw winters wear really quickly if they get too hot. Last time I used them I only got about 9K miles out of a set
Second the AWD endorsement.
Here in California, the variation in conditions between sea level and mountain elevations makes snow tire fitment impractical. They'd be great for the mind-bending amounts of snow and ice we get in the mountains but wear far too fast in the mild weather (20C+) down in the cities.
The combo of 19-inch rims + good all-seasons + AWD + winter-savvy driving will handle almost any conditions with aplomb. Certainly AWD adds confidence and competence to the icy car park ramp scenario.
Well worth the extra quid!
Here in California, the variation in conditions between sea level and mountain elevations makes snow tire fitment impractical. They'd be great for the mind-bending amounts of snow and ice we get in the mountains but wear far too fast in the mild weather (20C+) down in the cities.
The combo of 19-inch rims + good all-seasons + AWD + winter-savvy driving will handle almost any conditions with aplomb. Certainly AWD adds confidence and competence to the icy car park ramp scenario.
Well worth the extra quid!
It’s not a matter of convincing them, more a matter of making it a legal requirement as it is in many neighbouring countries. Winter temperatures are often in single digits, with plenty of black ice and a little snow is not that unusual in most of the UK.
thegruf
Active Member
I acknowledge the benefits, but I do not agree it should be made a legal requirement.
Neighbouring countries on the continent can experience much more significant winter events than the uk so the balance is different there.
In our area for example we barely had a single overnight frost in the last couple of years so to force all car owners to invest in winters is simply ott.
The reality is that in spite of your opinion I seriously doubt it will happen unless some peversity of climate change ends up wit hthe UK becoming colder due to changing winds. Better to focus on what is achieveable for safety.
Neighbouring countries on the continent can experience much more significant winter events than the uk so the balance is different there.
In our area for example we barely had a single overnight frost in the last couple of years so to force all car owners to invest in winters is simply ott.
The reality is that in spite of your opinion I seriously doubt it will happen unless some peversity of climate change ends up wit hthe UK becoming colder due to changing winds. Better to focus on what is achieveable for safety.
I am in the Midlands and obviously its been quite snowy this week. I have easily driven down (and up) many roads that other cars have struggled with without any issues whatsoever in my 75D. The Slip Start option is especially very good as it allows the wheels to slip to just enough to get moving but backs off when it detects you have gone past the max level of grip.
12Pack
Member
Keep in mind the RWD Tesla is not like regular ICE RWD cars. The motor and PEM sit on top of the driven wheels, aiding traction. Additionally there is some of the weight of the battery as well. The stock tyre size on 19 wheels is actually not very wide at all for such a heavy car, so that helps as well. So it should do a lot better than a comparable Merc/BMW etc. Addtionally Tesla like to say the electric drive train reacts faster to traction control inputs, too.
They could make it a regional requirement, again like some other countries do. I'm curious whereabouts in the UK you actually live as it doesn't sound that typical of UK winter weather. Here in the South Midlands it's often icy in the mornings and certainly well under 10 deg C for much of the winter and nearly always damp or wet. All conditions that heavily favour winter tyres. Where I grew up in Lancashire it snowed quite a lot too, especially on the hills. Even now as I type, we have nearly a foot of snow on the ground.
BTW I know it's not going to happen for political reasons, but that doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. With winter tyres (even with 2WD) I get around our icy and occasionally snowy rural roads with no problems, when less enlightened neighbours can't even get out of their driveways. On pretty much any frosty morning there will be at least one car in the ditch on my 7 mile trip into town. We're off to Canada on Friday where there is already a metre of snow on the ground and nobody will have any major issues on appropriate tyres. I don't see any point in not applying what I know about winter tyres regardless of legal requirements.
Just to add, with a powerful rear wheel drive car I think winter tyres are pretty much a necessity if you want to be reasonably safe in the worst UK winter conditions. Speaking to our local BMW dealer principal, he was saying that most of their customers now use winter tyres with free storage at the dealership. Same with Porsche, I had free winter tyre storage there too.
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WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
And you can always stick it in reverse coming down a hill if it turns into a sheet of glass!
Me too. I have put Winter Tyres on the kids FWD ICE cars. Peace of mind for me, if nothing else.
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