How much Solar Power can be generated with an investment of $150,000 per Supercharger

[Benz]

How much Solar Power can be generated with an investment of $150,000 per Supercharger station?

I just listened to the Conference Call of the Supercharger Announcement again. And I heard Elon Musk say that the cost per Supercharger would be about $150,000 without Solar, and about $300,000 with Solar. So, the investment in Solar will be about $150,000 per Supercharger location. And if you would add it up for all the Supercharger locations all together that would make $150,000 x 200 locations = $30,000,000 in total.

The sunlight is free, all the rest costs money.

I would like to know if Tesla Motors invests an amount of $150,000 in Solar Technology at a certain particular Supercharger location, how much Solar Power will then be generated (per day/week/month/year) with such an investment?

And my next question is: "Will Tesla Motors invest $150,000 at the actual particular Supercharger location itself, or will they combine all the amounts of all the Supercharger locations and build one huge Solar Power Plant to generate Solar Power for all the Supercharger locations ($150,000 x 200 locations = $30,000,000)?"

 

[FlasherZ]

Back-of-the-napkin guess which could be completely wrong so don't shoot...

I was quoted prices for solar install on my home that was in the neighborhood of $3,500 to $4,000 per kW. While it's a good number to start with in estimating, I realize the issues -- that government (and other) incentives have a strong hand to play in pricing (since contractors will tend to take full advantage of "free government money", while anything out-of-pocket must be market-smart); that profit, scale, etc. plays a role; and, that specialized high-power equipment may play a factor. Let's just hope some even each other out.

Wild-ass guess, then, that a solar installation at their cost would generate between 50-60 kW of power during peak sun times - provided the real estate for the panels exists (gut feel is that a 60 kW system would need to cover about 20-30 parking spaces or more). The renewable portfolio standard along with the accompanying regulatory environment is different in various states, so it would make sense for Tesla to target those states that provide a regulatory environment favorable to them (the ones that mandate higher percentages of renewables and a higher cost offset, e.g. retail net metering) and avoid those states that don't have that. Downside is that in the end, the customers usually end up paying for those policies anyway because costs are passed through -- e.g., some states' average customers only pay 5c-6c/kWh, while others at their peak pay 35+ c/kWh. But hey, we get to take advantage of it.

 

[Sparky]

Back-of-the-napkin guess which could be completely wrong so don't shoot...
...Wild-ass guess, then, that a solar installation at their cost would generate between 50-60 kW of power during peak sun times - provided the real estate for the panels exists (gut feel is that a 60 kW system would need to cover about 20-30 parking spaces or more). ...

Looking at the photo of the Hawthorne Supercharger on the Tesla website, I count 100 panels. Those look like the 96 cell 300 W panels so I would guess a 6 car parking setup (like Hawthorne) could be 30kW peak power.

 

[Benz]

Looking at the photo of the Hawthorne Supercharger on the Tesla website, I count 100 panels. Those look like the 96 cell 300 W panels so I would guess a 6 car parking setup (like Hawthorne) could be 30kW peak power.

This doesn't cost $150,000 I hope.
Many more solar panels can be bought with $150,000 I hope.

 

[FlasherZ]

Looking at the photo of the Hawthorne Supercharger on the Tesla website, I count 100 panels. Those look like the 96 cell 300 W panels so I would guess a 6 car parking setup (like Hawthorne) could be 30kW peak power.

You probably need to subtract 10-12% for nominal use (STC-vs-PTC), so 100 panels would get you about 27 kW. If Hawthorne's 6-space is the model for $150k, it seems a bit steep given the pricing that I've seen. Perhaps the $150k is based on double Hawthorne, though -- that would certainly be reasonable and in the neighborhood (and ~50-55 kW).

 

[Banahogg]

Some of that presumably needs to go to the structure as well - I have no clue what one of those would cost.

I remember being unclear when I first listened if the $150K included the battery or not - seemed like he might be saying that the battery and solar would go together on future buildouts?

 

[raymond]

Prices per Wp are less than US$ 1 these days. $150k buys you a *lot* of cells and roughly 150MWh per year. OTOH, that's only about 7 cars per day at 60kW per charge. But it seems that the SC's I've seen don't have enough room to fit $150k of PV's.

I'm puzzled.

 

[Benz]

Prices per Wp are less than US$ 1 these days. $150k buys you a *lot* of cells and roughly 150MWh per year. OTOH, that's only about 7 cars per day at 60kW per charge. But it seems that the SC's I've seen don't have enough room to fit $150k of PV's.

I'm puzzled.

That's my point.
I'm puzzled as well.
I don't understand how Tesla Motors is going to realise "Driving on pure sunlight".
I certainly do believe that they can and that they will realise it though. But how?

What exactly will be realised with the $150,000 investment per Supercharger Station?

 

[deonb]

You have 2 threads on the same topic...

I answered a few questions over here:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...-the-Tesla-Motors-website?p=373339#post373339


The main thing to keep in mind is that Tesla is going to double the number of parking spaces for the same amount of chargers. (There will be double the connectors as well, but I don't expect them to output anything until the first car is done charging).

This was announced simultaneously, so I expect that a $150k solar installation would be a 200-panel installation, and not a 100-panel installation.

However, the German installations when it was done at that massive scale was running at around 1000 Euro's / kW. So theoretically for $150k you should be able to buy 130 kW. But I expect the grid storage connection cost is contained in this part as well.

 

[FlasherZ]

Prices per Wp are less than US$ 1 these days. $150k buys you a *lot* of cells and roughly 150MWh per year. OTOH, that's only about 7 cars per day at 60kW per charge. But it seems that the SC's I've seen don't have enough room to fit $150k of PV's.

I'm puzzled.

It wouldn't be $150k worth of cells. You need the inverters (they're pretty pricey at 30+ kW), along with the canopy structure and installation costs. I was assuming that $150k bought about 60 kW STC / 54 kW PTC (~$60k). Add the inverter(s), canopy, and installation and you probably come close to $150k.

 

[jkirkebo]

It wouldn't be $150k worth of cells. You need the inverters (they're pretty pricey at 30+ kW), along with the canopy structure and installation costs. I was assuming that $150k bought about 60 kW STC / 54 kW PTC (~$60k). Add the inverter(s), canopy, and installation and you probably come close to $150k.

Hmm. I just bought a pallet of panels for $0.52 per watt from ACOsolar.com. Inverter was $0.30 per watt (4.4kW Eltek Valere), racking (tile roof mount) was $0.23 per watt. Total is $1.05 per watt + installation, cables and VAT. Should be doable for $1.50 per watt is my guess, so 100kW for $150k is probably possible. Larger volumes will be cheaper both for panels, inverters and shipping.

Tesla will have to add the cost of the canopy though, that structure probably costs quite a bit.

My total system cost for 5.17kW incl. 25% VAT and electrician fee is about $7300 or ~$1400 per kW. I do the panel mounting myself, the electrician only need to connect the inverter to the main panel (6 feet away).

Mind you this is in Norway, I paid $828 just for shipping ($650 for 24 panels from New Jersey, $178 for racking from China).