Hosting Tesla (Super)Charger, the offer and expense.

[Olle]

Years ago Tesla created the "Host a Supercharger" offer with info on hosting commercial locations.

Soon after Ford jumped on the NACS bandwagon, Tesla started responding to all the "Host a Supercharger" requests.
Except it is only for Destination chargers, and seems to be at cost by property owner.

My friend who has a store location right off a busy interstate received the same letter as Dana (posted in another thread).

The first letter received was
Date: Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 11:40 AM
Subject: Tesla Charging Inquiry




A follow up letter announcing MORE companies joining NACS.
Date: Thu, Jul 20, 2023 at 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Tesla Charging Inquiry

I have thought about this too, here is my interpretation, for what it's worth:

So questions:
1. Installing 6-12 chargers for $25,000-$50,000
I assume this is only the cost for adding a transformer, breakers, lines, and labor to install all this equipment, and NOT paying Tesla anything except for the 6 to 12 charger themselves.

Exactly this. Tesla only expects to get paid for the WCs. The remainder goes to utility, contractor, non-Tesla equipment and local jurisdiction. What is up for interpretation is if Tesla estimates that any number of connectors between 6 and 12 might cost anywhere between $25 and 50k, or do they mean $25k for 6, proportionally increasing up to 50k for 12?

2. The owner of installation can set the charging cost, with Tesla only asking for "sole fee is one penny per kWh"
What is the typical rates a Destination charger, well, charges?

I have used dozens of Tesla destination chargers and the've always been free. Possibly because they were installed before the billing function was available. Non-Tesla destination chargers often cost money. According to Chargepoint website national average is 20c/kWh.

3. The hard question is what is the traffic one can expect, especially with more BEV on road? The location is off IH-2 between McAllen and Harlingen (south Texas)
The location will show up in all Tesla cars, and likely non-Tesla cars too (will install a few J1772 connect)

Requires market research per location to predict. I am sure traffic will increase exponentially with EV market share and NACS standard.

4. Overall question, IS this a good investment for a small retail location? Anyone else install a charger and see more visitors? Is there an ROI available?

One would have to make a spreadsheet to see profit and loss. If you have similar retail locations, how about you install destination chargers at one and compare retail traffic before and after to the other(s), everything else equal?

Finally I have a question: Do you know if the destination charge set up would require the customers to use mobile app payment, or support 'Plug and Charge' like a Supercharger?

 

[SigNC]

Finally I have a question: Do you know if the destination charge set up would require the customers to use mobile app payment, or support 'Plug and Charge' like a Supercharger?

I believe it's app based, just like you see the tesla J-1772 paid chargers show up under non tesla based charging in the app now

 

[brkaus]

I'm also curious if the setup allows charging for idle time or exceeding a max charging time.

 

[Olle]

I believe it's app based, just like you see the tesla J-1772 paid chargers show up under non tesla based charging in the app now

I was afraid that was going to be the case. What might be the reason they haven't implemented plug and charge yet?

 

[SigNC]

I was afraid that was going to be the case. What might be the reason they haven't implemented plug and charge yet?

Good question and it very well may be for tesla plugs but with j1772 it will need to app based until they get integration with the NACS using companies I assume.

 

[brkaus]

Hilton to Install Up to 20,000 Tesla Universal Wall Connectors at 2,000 Hotels | Hilton News

The Hilton and Tesla agreement is creating the largest overnight Electronic Vehicle charging network within the hospitality industry.

stories.hilton.com

“Most will have 6 or more”

 

[Olle]

Hilton to Install Up to 20,000 Tesla Universal Wall Connectors at 2,000 Hotels | Hilton News

The Hilton and Tesla agreement is creating the largest overnight Electronic Vehicle charging network within the hospitality industry.

stories.hilton.com

“Most will have 6 or more”

Good observation and from this thread we know why! You need six or more to commission the commercial customer billing.

My bet is Hilton will actually install significantly more than six for each property once they get started. These new TWC can bill the Tesla owner if Hilton wanted to, and plug and charge is possibly in the next software patch if not already. This means Hilton could make their money back directly in case they are uncertain of the business case of attracting guests with free charging.

For a large corporation like Hilton there is a lot of soft cost, not least for the department dealing with the contracting and jurisdiction end of this. Thus it might not be worth dilly dallying with 6 chargers, but rather install these in every parking spot. As a side effect, that removes the problems of ICEing and reserving spots for guest needing to charge.

WC load sharing function means that the premises doesn’t necessarily need extra power. Could always upgrade later as charging occupancy increases.

 

[brkaus]

Yup. The article doesn’t mention anything about cost. I’m curious what direction that goes! And if they will somehow integrate into the hotel billing system or card system to provide reduced cost for guests.

My biggest gripe with hotel free charging is non guests using it and cutting me out.

 

[Olle]

Yup. The article doesn’t mention anything about cost. I’m curious what direction that goes! And if they will somehow integrate into the hotel billing system or card system to provide reduced cost for guests.

My biggest gripe with hotel free charging is non guests using it and cutting me out.

Hilton might do both free and billed, depending on the hotel occupancy rate or other factors. Since Tesla commercial charging can now handle destination charge billing, it could bill the customer and forward the money to the hotel. Makes your hotel room look less expensive. While charging 1c/kWh question is if Tesla wants to have the rest of 0 margin revenue on their books?

 

[Earl]

WC load sharing function means that the premises doesn’t necessarily need extra power.

This could be unfortunate for users though, especially if Hilton starts charging any kind of idle fee.
1) If one arrives at a hotel on empty, one does not know if you'll be charged by morning, 24 hours later? 2 days later? etc. It all depends on who else is charging and how much.
2) If idle fees, you won't be able to go to sleep while your car is charging since it may (or may not) finish charging while you're sleeping and you may not get waken up by your app telling you you're through charging.
These may be as useless as the Chargepoint charger at a hotel I stayed in recently that had a 4 hour charging limit before the price when waaay up. I'm not going to set an alarm to wake me up at 2:00 am to move my car. Luckily, there we some Superchargers nearby so I wasted time at them.

 

[Olle]

This could be unfortunate for users though, especially if Hilton starts charging any kind of idle fee.
1) If one arrives at a hotel on empty, one does not know if you'll be charged by morning, 24 hours later? 2 days later? etc. It all depends on who else is charging and how much.
2) If idle fees, you won't be able to go to sleep while your car is charging since it may (or may not) finish charging while you're sleeping and you may not get waken up by your app telling you you're through charging.
These may be as useless as the Chargepoint charger at a hotel I stayed in recently that had a 4 hour charging limit before the price when waaay up. I'm not going to set an alarm to wake me up at 2:00 am to move my car. Luckily, there we some Superchargers nearby so I wasted time at them.

the hotel won’t charge idle fees if every spot has a charger. Why don’t you know until morning how much they will bill you? you should know the minute you book your hotel room.

 

[Earl]

the hotel won’t charge idle fees if every spot has a charger. Why don’t you know until morning how much they will bill you? you should know the minute you book your hotel room.

6 chargers is probably a bit shy of 'every spot has a charger'.
haha! too much over-use of the word "Charger". Sorry, my bad.
I should, perhaps have been more clear by saying that "I don't know how much electrical charge the battery will have in the morning". I don't know if I'll be able to resume my trip.

 

[MikeRadio]

Destination chargers are good for a place where someone will spend a chunk of time, like a motel. I look for motels with destination chargers where I can charge overnight. Generally motels do not charge their guests to use the chargers.

For a store or restaurant, they're not likely to attract much business as they provide 20 to 30 miles of range for every hour a car is plugged in. I don't think the Tesla chargers have a way to bill the users unless that was recently added. I have a destination charger at home. The price would be very good if it could bill the customer.

Someone on a road trip is going to want a Supercharger or other high speed charger.

I also only stay at motels with free destination, chargers, or free level two chargers available. It just makes sense to have a full tank when you’re ready to hit the road the next day and not have to pay for it. However, with this deal that Hilton and Marriott have with Tesla I’m just afraid that those destination chargers are going to start charging as they are now part of a big network of tens of thousands going in. I just hope they’re free because that is something that should be part of staying at a hotel, sort of like the breakfast.

 

[gtae07]

I just hope they’re free because that is something that should be part of staying at a hotel, sort of like the breakfast.

TANSTAAFL... you can make everyone pay, or only the folks using those things. But either way it's not "free".

 

[SigNC]

TANSTAAFL... you can make everyone pay, or only the folks using those things. But either way it's not "free".

Feel better? I think we all know what he meant, especially when he clarified like the included breakfast with your hotel stay.

 

[father_of_6]

What conclusion should the OP be taking from my comment: Expect very few additional customers that are on trips/traveling, for L2 has litlle value to them.

OP:
One man's opinion: Most looking for L2 charging outside of the scope of a hotel stay are looking for a free charge.

I'm with @dafish on this one. I'm either charging at home, or I'm using SuperChargers on a road trip.

There's a grocery store not far from me with a free L2 charger outside. On the occasion that I shop there, I wouldn't ever bother plugging in there.

The people who do plug in at those are the type who will go out and of their way for a freebie.

The only time I'd be inclined to use L2 charging outside of my home charging would be:

1. A place I'm staying (hotel, relative, RV park, etc).
2. I'm in the middle of a charging desert and have no other options.

I just can't see myself visiting a restaurant to charge.

 

[ThomasD]

I think it would be better for Hotels to designate spots for charging rather than setting up charging in every spot. A charger in every spot won't solve the problem of not having access to a charger while staying at a Hotel. There will just be more chargers blocked with vehicles.

 

[father_of_6]

I think it would be better for Hotels to designate spots for charging rather than setting up charging in every spot. A charger in every spot won't solve the problem of not having access to a charger while staying at a Hotel. There will just be more chargers blocked with vehicles.

Not sure I follow your logic. You'd advocate for *less* chargers because having chargers in every spot would mean some will be blocked and not in use?

Regarding the number of chargers... more is more, less is less. I'd say every hotel in the country should be required to have a minimum of one L2 charger per hotel room. One and a half times would be even better.

This allows travelers to shift their charging to overnight when the grid is less active, as well as save time, as well as reduce battery degradation from fast DC charging, as well as reduce traffic at fast DC chargers, as well as provide an additional revenue stream for hotels, as well as increase EV adoption.

 

[Big Earl]

I love this topic. I believe Tesla has the strongest offering on the market when it comes to destination charging.

If you have a full 200-amp 240-volt service, six Wall connectors could charge three cars at the full 11.5 kW, four cars would drop to 9.6 kW per car, five would be 7.6 kW per car and six would be 6.4 kW per car. For comparison, a typical ChargePoint brand level 2 charger is 7.2 kW max per vehicle, with many stations splitting that in half when two cars are charging.

I don't recommend giving power away for free. People are irrational with their consumption of free stuff. At the very minimum, configure your Wall Connectors to bill the cost of electricity plus 1 cent per kWh. If you want some additional revenue from the installation, add a 50% markup to the price of power. Some places try to charge too much and end up with unused charging equipment and resentful customers.

Thanks for opinions.
I am agreeing the expense of adding the power capacity to host 6 DestChar is more than added traffic.
Putting 1 DC using available building capacity looks better and will get on all EV maps except Tesla.

I disagree pretty strongly with this. Your average non-Tesla DC fast charger is a reliability nightmare. Parts are expensive and often delayed, labor to fix them is expensive, and network fees are significantly higher than Tesla's $0.01 per kWh.

Destination charging is great for locations that can entertain or otherwise occupy visitors for an hour or more. If you're at a location with a shorter dwell time, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You can buy a warranty, but that's an additional up-front cost, and the repair lead times are still long.

I can't see it costing 25k on 6 wall connectors, could it?

Installation costs can vary substantially depending on the nature of the installation. Most of the costs are related to electrical work, so proper siting of your installation is important. Choose a location that either has existing power, is near to existing power, or can have a new service drop installed near existing infrastructure. Avoid concrete and asphalt work if possible.

A new dedicated service drop is thousands of dollars; electrical costs are much lower if you have existing capacity. Note that wall connector installations can be configured to take advantage of the power you have available.

I believe it's app based, just like you see the tesla J-1772 paid chargers show up under non tesla based charging in the app now

Teslas will automatically bill to your credit card just like a Supercharger. Non-Teslas initiate a charge through the app (charge your non-Tesla).

 

[SigNC]

I don't recommend giving power away for free. People are irrational with their consumption of free stuff. At the very minimum, configure your Wall Connectors to bill the cost of electricity plus 1 cent per kWh. If you want some additional revenue from the installation, add a 50% markup to the price of power. Some places try to charge too much and end up with unused charging equipment and resentful customers.

Love this for most places although I do believe that hotels they are generally able to offer them free without non patrons taking that much advantage. That being said I'm sure everybody would gladly take more break even chargers than less free ones at hotels as overnight charging is a game changer on a road trip.