How Tesla Managed to Alienate Their Most Loyal Customers

[DaveT]

Unfortunately, #1 is more than enough in our society. If you make a good product that no one can get elsewhere, you don't even need to steward customers/fans to sell it. In fact, you can do almost anything and people will still buy your product.

If you don't care about your customers, you might be able to sell your product if you're the only one that sells it. But sooner or later (most likely sooner) another company will come up and sell a very similar product yet they'll treat customers well and will take your lunch. Good customer service is essential, especially so in a luxury/premium market where it's expected.

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I would call myself a Tesla fan. As such, I would call myself a loyal customer. Since we sold the Prius (nobody here wanted to drive it) and only have one car, and since we sold the Tesla and bought a newer edition, and since I have been a "loyal customer" for several years, and am still treated as an honored person by Tesla at all levels, I feel I am in that category of "most loyal customer."

...AND since I do not feel alienated at all, I guess the title of the thread is a little off.

I guess you meant that you, personally, feel alienated. But, truly, it has nothing to do with your being a "loyal" or "most loyal" customer. You have expectations that are a little above what I have. But that doesn't mean we are in the same boat. Or showroom. Loyalty has nothing to do with what you spend on your car.

Thanks for that. It bugged me, but I feel better now.

Hey Roblab, I've seen your posts often so I know you're big fan of Tesla. Just curious are you a X reservation holder?

Also, I didn't mean to infer that Tesla has alienated all their most loyal customers via the X rollout. But I do believe that they've alienated/disappointed some of their most loyal customers (ie., some X reservation holders). The exact number and percentage is up for debate and we'll probably never know. But it's definitely more than just me. The forums are littered with many X reservation holders who have described in detail their frustrations with how Tesla has handled the X rollout.

 

[TSLAopt]

I would call myself a Tesla fan. As such, I would call myself a loyal customer. Since we sold the Prius (nobody here wanted to drive it) and only have one car, and since we sold the Tesla and bought a newer edition, and since I have been a "loyal customer" for several years, and am still treated as an honored person by Tesla at all levels, I feel I am in that category of "most loyal customer."

...AND since I do not feel alienated at all, I guess the title of the thread is a little off.

I guess you meant that you, personally, feel alienated. But, truly, it has nothing to do with your being a "loyal" or "most loyal" customer. You have expectations that are a little above what I have. But that doesn't mean we are in the same boat. Or showroom. Loyalty has nothing to do with what you spend on your car.

Thanks for that. It bugged me, but I feel better now.

i am a loyal fan too but we cannot ignore that there are significant Tesla customers that are not being communicated with properly by service/delivery. Of course there will always be some miscues and bad apples in service, especially in a very fast growing company such as Tesla.


I work in a company that ironically succeeds and grows very fast as well despite its often poor service/communication but the success of the company I work for wont last when a competitor is able to offer a similar value-proposition with better service/communication.

Even if a Tesla service/sales/delivery rep can't solve an issue or answer a question in a timely manner then a call to update the customer that they're still looking into the issue and haven't forgotten about them goes a long way vs. no call at all for several days or ever even, especially if an 'expectation' was set (and an 'expectation' should be set) of when more information should be available on the issue is reported or question initially asked. If a follow up is required to answer the question/issue then the customer facing tesla employee should always set some type of expectation for when the customer waiting for an answer/resolution should expect to hear back from Tesla (e.g. "I'll be back to you by the end of the day" or "we'll have XYZ dept follow up with you tomorrow", etc.). IF it can be enforced, this is the recipe for successful service and communications with clients/customers/prospects. Of course it is better to produce a car/product that never needs servicing or roll out a new car/product launch with very clear mass communications to all reservation holders so as to minimize questions/concerns but those ideals are not usually the case.

My opinion after seeing all the faults in service for years in the jobs I've been in is that there needs to be an efficient internal "system" of "communications accountability" put in place for all Tesla employees that are customer facing. Every customer or prospective customer inquiry needs to be recorded in that system with a 'ticket' and reference number to that 'ticket' generated internal to Tesla employees. This is corporate service 101...but the accountability aspect needs to be enforced with quality control on the servicing aspect, that is what is often missing. the email communications by tesla facing employees with customers/prospects should be randomly monitored by QC along with the phone calls and there should also be random follow ups with customers who appear to have issues "solved/closed" according to the internal "ticket" system. This quality control enforcement will make all customer facing tesla employees be much more accountable.
For example, if I am a Signature X holder today and call in to get the status of why my X still isn't ready and when it will be ready for me to take delivery, then whoever I speak with (or am transferred to last) needs to set an expectation (e.g. "I'll follow up or make sure someone follows up with you by end of day Wednesday") and then try to beat that expectation by following up tomorrow (Tuesday) if possible. If they can't pleasantly surprise me with a meaningful update by Tuesday, then they still have until the end of Wednesday to get some color to give me. If the customer facing Tesla employee can't get a solid answer or info from internal sources within Tesla (e.g. Factor/delivery managers) by end of day Wednesday then they need to call me back by the end of day Wednesday with an update that they have some calls into the factory and delivery managers and are still trying to get a solid answer and set a new expectation (e.g. "I'll call you by end of day Friday with an update I hope if not sooner").

 

[sundaymorning]

If you don't care about your customers, you might be able to sell your product if you're the only one that sells it. But sooner or later (most likely sooner) another company will come up and sell a very similar product yet they'll treat customers well and will take your lunch.

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Hey Roblab, I've seen your posts often so I know you're big fan of Tesla. Just curious are you a X reservation holder?
.

Dave, maybe this has been asked of you before. I don't have the time to go back 40-50 pages to read, I'm just curious if you still have your X reservation? It's understandable if you cancelled, and quite frankly, as a share holder, I would rather you take your money to another company where you feel pampered. My second question is, if you were to cancel, where would you take your money to buy a premium electric SUV? I know there isn't any on the horizon momentarily, say for the next 3-5 years. But if someone was to build it, where would you take your money vs. staying with Tesla? Would you be willing to settle for a regular SUV after seeing the what the X capabilities are, such as safety, performance, etc.? It's common to hear complaints, even from Mercs, BM, Lexus, Porsche.. And I'm curious to find out what drives a person to cancelling their X, especially if they're loyal? And also, do you currently hold puts or any short position on the stock?

 

[Andyw2100]

Dave, maybe this has been asked of you before. I don't have the time to go back 40-50 pages to read, I'm just curious if you still have your X reservation? It's understandable if you cancelled, and quite frankly, as a share holder, I would rather you take your money to another company where you feel pampered. My second question is, if you were to cancel, where would you take your money to buy a premium electric SUV? I know there isn't any on the horizon momentarily, say for the next 3-5 years. But if someone was to build it, where would you take your money vs. staying with Tesla? Would you be willing to settle for a regular SUV after seeing the what the X capabilities are, such as safety, performance, etc.? It's common to hear complaints, even from Mercs, BM, Lexus, Porsche.. And I'm curious to find out what drives a person to cancelling their X, especially if they're loyal? And also, do you currently hold puts or any short position on the stock?

Since you "don't have the time", and DaveT hasn't responded yet, I'll respond to some of this on his behalf.

I don't believe he has canceled his X reservation.

He has stated he has a significant investment (long) in TSLA. The post in which he stated that was moved to Snippiness, but I'm sure not because what he said was snippy, so I think it's OK for me to excerpt it here. He wrote:

...I think you're mis-taking my post. I'm not telling people to short TSLA. I'm not saying Tesla's future is doomed. In fact, I'm probably more long than you in number of shares, % net worth invested in TSLA, and # years I plan to hold.

Here's the link to the moved post:
snippiness - Page 209

And as a Tesla owner who at times has also been critical of Tesla because I want Tesla to be as good as it can be--to be incredibly successful--, I can tell you that I really don't care where you or any investors would prefer that I, DaveT, or anyone else spend our money.

 

[sundaymorning]

Since you "don't have the time", and DaveT hasn't responded yet, I'll respond to some of this on his behalf.

I don't believe he has canceled his X reservation.

He has stated he has a significant investment (long) in TSLA. The post in which he stated that was moved to Snippiness, but I'm sure not because what he said was snippy, so I think it's OK for me to excerpt it here. He wrote:



Here's the link to the moved post:
snippiness - Page 209

And as a Tesla owner who at times has also been critical of Tesla because I want Tesla to be as good as it can be--to be incredibly successful--, I can tell you that I really don't care where you or any investors would prefer that I, DaveT, or anyone else spend our money.

Thanks for that. We all know what Dave's long position is, I'm just curious to his short term play. As far as not cancelling, if we can take that at face value, then Tesla hasn't alienated him just yet. Perhaps, Dave is eager to get his X, despite the secretive nature of Tesla, Dave is smart enough to stick around because there is value to his purchase. Now if Dave does hold short term puts, it would explain the motivation for posting here after a long absence wouldn't you think? Or has Tesla alienated him so much that he's cancelled his X, and taking his frustrations here? I'm just a long term investor keeping an eye on the playing field. And you can count me as a believer who hasn't yet been alienated..

 

[MrAustraliaTax]

Now if Dave does hold short term puts, it would explain the motivation for posting here after a long absence wouldn't you think?

Why is such a common response here on TMC to any negative Tesla sentiment:

1. If you don't like it, sell your car and buy an ICE, or
2. Must be a TSLA short trolling.

Is it inconceivable that you can love the product whilst decrying the way the company is currently doing business?

 

[Auzie]

Most of the stuff proposed here may be desired by some customers but not by all.


The fact that Tesla does business (communicates) the way they do it tells me that it is their prerogative to do it that way, for the reasons that we can all guess. Some customers may not like it and may find it frustrating, that is understandable.


Regarding Tesla service, my view is that it might be advantageous to have various levels of service, at various service pricing that is uncoupled from a car price. Such approach is not elitist yet it can satisfy a wide range of customers, say from royal treatment through to standard and basic. If someone desires very special treatment with a lot of care, more frequent inspections, short wait times and frequent communications, it should be possible to provide it, at a premium service price that goes with such care.


Premium service need not be coupled to a premium car. Some top range car customers do not really care too much about receiving special treatment and do not wish to pay for it, they might prefer basic treatment at a basic price. Some model 3 owners might wish to pay for royal treatment. Providing various service levels is standard business practice adopted by many businesses, think Amazon prime etc.


The problem of communicating with reservation holders is a bit harder as they can not be segregated into classes. It is quite difficult to have any meaningful communication with reservation holders when the crucial bits of information (the delivery date, or car features) are not available. Any other placating communication might come across in various ways. It is often safer to stay quiet than to try and placate people with some information that they might find irrelevant.

 

[AlMc]

Why is such a common response here on TMC to any negative Tesla sentiment:

1. If you don't like it, sell your car and buy an ICE, or
2. Must be a TSLA short trolling.

Is it inconceivable that you can love the product whilst decrying the way the company is currently doing business?

Thank you. There are many of us here that support the mission statement, have stock, have TM products already, want the company to succeed and feel it is our obligation to offer constructive criticism that may result in changes that will help the company succeed.

Being called 'troll','shorts', or indicating that if we voice those concerns directly to TM (DaveT indicated he has done that and I know I have) that we should take our money and leave in no way is helpful to achieving the mission statement.

In addition, nothing an individual investor says here or choses to do with their individual positions in TSLA has any affect on the SP of TSLA...unless someone here is EM in disguise.

 

[The Blue Owl]

Why is such a common response here on TMC to any negative Tesla sentiment:

1. If you don't like it, sell your car and buy an ICE, or
2. Must be a TSLA short trolling.

Is it inconceivable that you can love the product whilst decrying the way the company is currently doing business?

Yeah, I also sometimes wonder about that. I think it's because, as a very weak heuristic, it sorta-kinda works. There is no shortage of trolls on the board who start off as reasonable sounding, only to slowly but inevitably veer into insanity later (see all the valuationmatters and tftfs of the world).

It is a bit more puzzling when people who have built solid credibility over time are met with hostility when they are critical of the company, the stock, or Musk himself. But even then, it's not that surprising. To understand what a well-intentioned critic is saying you have to choose the most charitable interpretation of their statements, and this is actually pretty costly to do. It takes more emotional energy to give somebody the benefit of the doubt when they seem to act contrary to what you believe/want. People don't have that much energy to spend on the internet, so sometimes they reflexively shoot the messenger, even though most are very likely perfectly reasonable if you interact with them in person. I fall into that trap all the time, even though I'm so cuddly when you get to know me. (Ummm. Don't believe all you read on the internet.)

I sometimes find it irritating, because this is how opportunities get missed, but whatever, I get it. I notice it sometimes with friends. Emails on controversial topics can get significantly more heated than when those very same subjects are discussed over beer and steaks. I bet that is also true about most of the participants in this thread.

 

[aesculus]

Why is such a common response here on TMC to any negative Tesla sentiment:

1. If you don't like it, sell your car and buy an ICE, or
2. Must be a TSLA short trolling.

Is it inconceivable that you can love the product whilst decrying the way the company is currently doing business?

I think it's human nature to take offense of anyone/thing that goes against your beliefs. This is true for politics, religion, celebrities, spouses, cars and now companies I guess. People think when you attack one of their beliefs you are essentially attacking them too. Very few people are truly objective. It's rare. I am sure I don't possess that capability.:smile:

 

[tftf]

?.only to slowly but inevitably veer into insanity later (see all the valuationmatters and tftfs of the world).

Thank you.

Mod edited to remove material inappropriate even for snippiness

 

[The Blue Owl]

Thank you.

Mod edited, as above

Spare me. I am on record threatening to leave the board if you get banned because of people not liking your arguments. But then your posts started to repeat the same thing over and over again, with a complete disregard for the intelligence of your readers, as well as a total lack of respect by never acknowledging any of your opponents' points. Even though, clearly, your ability to reason is perfectly fine. It was your choice to never engage, only troll. As a result, you've long lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned.

When posters make honest arguments, I acknowledge them and even reinforce them when necessary, no matter on which side they come down. I don't have a "side". I have a brain, and enough awareness to know when I'm conversing with a broken record.

 

[sundaymorning]

Why is such a common response here on TMC to any negative Tesla sentiment:

1. If you don't like it, sell your car and buy an ICE, or
2. Must be a TSLA short trolling.

Is it inconceivable that you can love the product whilst decrying the way the company is currently doing business?

I think a few posters might of taken my questions a little bit further and are running away with it. My questions are direct, but they are not meant as a smear campaign against Dave. I actually like the guy and think highly of him for his earlier contributions. However, he did leave for a very long time so it makes one curious. As for Tesla "alienating" their customers, I think they can do better. But they're not, so my thought process is either deal with it or cancel, because we're not the directors and executives sitting in that room. One can criticize and complain all one wants; at the end of the day, the executives will decide, just how some may decide to stick it with the X despite the over promises. Check out the link below:

Model X Timeline - From Prototype to Production - Page 39

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I think it's human nature to take offense of anyone/thing that goes against your beliefs.

You've made the wrong conclusion, I'll leave it at that.

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I think it's human nature to take offense of anyone/thing that goes against your beliefs.

You've made the wrong conclusion, I'll leave it at that.

 

[DaveT]

Dave, maybe this has been asked of you before. I don't have the time to go back 40-50 pages to read, I'm just curious if you still have your X reservation? It's understandable if you cancelled, and quite frankly, as a share holder, I would rather you take your money to another company where you feel pampered. My second question is, if you were to cancel, where would you take your money to buy a premium electric SUV? I know there isn't any on the horizon momentarily, say for the next 3-5 years. But if someone was to build it, where would you take your money vs. staying with Tesla? Would you be willing to settle for a regular SUV after seeing the what the X capabilities are, such as safety, performance, etc.? It's common to hear complaints, even from Mercs, BM, Lexus, Porsche.. And I'm curious to find out what drives a person to cancelling their X, especially if they're loyal? And also, do you currently hold puts or any short position on the stock?

Andy already addressed this, but I'm very long TSLA via common stock and very committed to holding TSLA for many, many years. I don't hold a short position, no puts, and no short term plays.

My interest in this post is not in my specific situation but rather how Tesla's approach to communication (and delays) affect Model 3 reservation holders, and ultimately how it will affect the long-term prospects of Tesla. Some people think Tesla's future is guaranteed, but I'm far from that view. All companies face inherent risk, and since the auto industry is very capital intensive Tesla faces challenges ahead especially if/when there is a severe recession. Also, Model 3 can be fairly successful (ie., sell 300-500k cars/year) but it doesn't guarantee TSLA stock will do well either. More of that depends on how much investors believe in the ability of Tesla to execute and to grow at a very, very fast pace. If Model 3 faces delays and Tesla mismanages communication, then it can affect investor's attitude toward TSLA in a very profound manner. Already, investor mood has soured on TSLA recently because Tesla has reneged on many of its previous goals (ie., 2000 cars/year production rate by end of 2015, X ramp very fast by end of 2015, etc). Having disappointed reservation holders only serves to strengthen the doubts that the investor community has around Tesla's challenges with execution and keeping it's promises/timelines.

Now, actually if I wanted to I could list and rant about many complaints about Tesla (not related to communication and the X). However, to me it's not relevant in the bigger picture because it doesn't affect the ultimate course/destination/growth of Tesla. In other words, my minor complaints aren't about issues that impact Tesla in a future-changing manner. However, over the past 1+ years I have been getting a sense that Tesla lacks discipline (or values or something) to communicate consistently well with customers, especially reservation holders. If this was an issue that I thought didn't and wouldn't affect Tesla in the future in a significant manner, then I'd just hold my tongue and not bring it up. However, this issue is something I've been thinking deeply about for over a year, and in my mind it does significantly impact Tesla's future... not so much in the present but more so if Tesla continues to mismanage communication with Model 3 reservation holders and Model 3 is delayed, then it can really sour many people's attitude toward Tesla and impact the investor's mood around TSLA, which can in turn give TSLA a lower market cap and make it more challenging to raise money to fund their future plans. And I, for one, am someone that thinks its crucial that TSLA is able to access capital markets on good terms, as I think it does/will make a big impact on Tesla's growth trajectory. Basically, the more money they can raise on better terms, the faster they'll be able to grow and progress. However, if they're limited by their lower market cap to leverage good terms in raising capital, then it can/will restrict their future growth plans. Sure, it might not make a difference as to the size of Tesla in 2020, but these investments and capital access will make a huge difference in what Tesla looks like in 2025 and 2030.

Some people in this thread have chosen to minimize this issue and try to turn it into a personal one... ie., "Oh, Dave feels burned by Tesla. He should just cancel his X reservation and go somewhere else." But this is not what I'm talking about.

Or others have suggested something along the lines of "Tesla can do whatever they want. They don't have to care about their customers and they'll still succeed." This, in my opinion, is based on a naive view of Tesla as being a super strong company w/no competitors in the next 5-10 years. And this is in stark contrast to my opinion that Tesla will have very, very strong competitors in 5-10 years (ie., more from tech companies vs traditional auto companies).

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I think a few posters might of taken my questions a little bit further and are running away with it. My questions are direct, but they are not meant as a smear campaign against Dave. I actually like the guy and think highly of him for his earlier contributions. However, he did leave for a very long time so it makes one curious.

Actually, I never "left" for a very long time. If you look at my post history you'll see I've been posting regularly over the past year, just not as prolific as a couple years ago. Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum

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As for Tesla "alienating" their customers, I think they can do better. But they're not, so my thought process is either deal with it or cancel, because we're not the directors and executives sitting in that room. One can criticize and complain all one wants; at the end of the day, the executives will decide, just how some may decide to stick it with the X despite the over promises.

Generally, I agree with this (or at least used to) and don't post 99% of my complaints about Tesla because I didn't see it as constructive. However, after trying to communicate my concerns with Tesla and being rebuffed several times, and after being personally convinced that this issue (Tesla's communication problems) has the possibility to really impact Tesla's future in a negative way, that's where I decided it was worth it to post and share some of my thoughts in hopes that I can hear from others what they thought. Also, it could serve as an opportunity for Tesla to hear about it, if other customers/reservation holders share their experiences/thoughts.

I am however starting to doubt my previous thinking of just keeping silent about my complaints. I wonder if that's really the best thing to do. I have passed on suggestions to Tesla/Elon but rarely ever get a response. If things were being corrected, then I wouldn't mind. But when things don't seem corrected, that's when I start to wonder if it's actually better, as a long-term TSLA shareholder (which means I'm a partial owner in the company like all shareholders), to actually voice my concerns more strongly.

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i am a loyal fan too but we cannot ignore that there are significant Tesla customers that are not being communicated with properly by service/delivery. Of course there will always be some miscues and bad apples in service, especially in a very fast growing company such as Tesla.

I work in a company that ironically succeeds and grows very fast as well despite its often poor service/communication but the success of the company I work for wont last when a competitor is able to offer a similar value-proposition with better service/communication.

Even if a Tesla service/sales/delivery rep can't solve an issue or answer a question in a timely manner then a call to update the customer that they're still looking into the issue and haven't forgotten about them goes a long way vs. no call at all for several days or ever even, especially if an 'expectation' was set (and an 'expectation' should be set) of when more information should be available on the issue is reported or question initially asked. If a follow up is required to answer the question/issue then the customer facing tesla employee should always set some type of expectation for when the customer waiting for an answer/resolution should expect to hear back from Tesla (e.g. "I'll be back to you by the end of the day" or "we'll have XYZ dept follow up with you tomorrow", etc.). IF it can be enforced, this is the recipe for successful service and communications with clients/customers/prospects. Of course it is better to produce a car/product that never needs servicing or roll out a new car/product launch with very clear mass communications to all reservation holders so as to minimize questions/concerns but those ideals are not usually the case.

My opinion after seeing all the faults in service for years in the jobs I've been in is that there needs to be an efficient internal "system" of "communications accountability" put in place for all Tesla employees that are customer facing. Every customer or prospective customer inquiry needs to be recorded in that system with a 'ticket' and reference number to that 'ticket' generated internal to Tesla employees. This is corporate service 101...but the accountability aspect needs to be enforced with quality control on the servicing aspect, that is what is often missing. the email communications by tesla facing employees with customers/prospects should be randomly monitored by QC along with the phone calls and there should also be random follow ups with customers who appear to have issues "solved/closed" according to the internal "ticket" system. This quality control enforcement will make all customer facing tesla employees be much more accountable.
For example, if I am a Signature X holder today and call in to get the status of why my X still isn't ready and when it will be ready for me to take delivery, then whoever I speak with (or am transferred to last) needs to set an expectation (e.g. "I'll follow up or make sure someone follows up with you by end of day Wednesday") and then try to beat that expectation by following up tomorrow (Tuesday) if possible. If they can't pleasantly surprise me with a meaningful update by Tuesday, then they still have until the end of Wednesday to get some color to give me. If the customer facing Tesla employee can't get a solid answer or info from internal sources within Tesla (e.g. Factor/delivery managers) by end of day Wednesday then they need to call me back by the end of day Wednesday with an update that they have some calls into the factory and delivery managers and are still trying to get a solid answer and set a new expectation (e.g. "I'll call you by end of day Friday with an update I hope if not sooner").

Great much-needed suggestion for Tesla. I really hope that Tesla's VP of Communication can adopt everything you said. If not, Tesla ought to get someone who will.

 

[mibaro2]

You're absolutely right, except if we're being honest here there is but a handful of people who would have accepted additional communication such as the following without question: "Just dropping you a note to let you know we're pushing back the delivery of the Model X again. Thank you for your patience, we appreciate you."

We'd still have people here complaining that the communication wasn't enough. And every single person here knows that. So while I'm in the camp that more communication along the way would have been appropriate, and would have perhaps satisfied the OP, there isn't a chance in hell it would have stopped the criticism of 'Tesla's communication sucks!'. Julian is absolutely correct that giving reservationists any sort of specific business/supplier/engineering/etc... information would have seen Tesla crucified in the media, but also here - if we're being honest.

Reasonable people not wrapped up in themselves will accept a sincere apology and a note of acknowledgement. Unfortunately, we've got a lot of unreasonable people wrapped up in themselves in this world and they aren't afraid to show themselves off. (If you aren't part of the latter group, then don't get bent out of shape. If you are, then know that sometimes the truth hurts.)

In my experience, 9 times out of 10 customers just want some information. It doesn't have to be what they want to hear, but it has to give them some update on their issue. My job in the technology field entails dealing with customers every day. Giving them proper expectations and updates is paramount to keeping customers.
As was mentioned, it doesn't have to be in much detail. Just a quick note.
So yes, Tesla does need to fix their communication with customers for a successful model 3 launch.

 

[tamtam10]

Don't have time to read through 25 pages of this thread but I get the jist. If you don't agree with DaveT that (i) Tesla completely botched the "Model X Launch" (and I say that in quotations because lets be honest, that was some major BS to give the impression that they've hit their release target date, the X STILL hasn't been launched as far as I am concerned), and (ii) That Tesla's communication problems are a MAJOR concern to us as shareholders, you are delusional and allowing yourself to be clouded by how much you love your vehicle(s) and/or the company and/or Elon.

I am also incredibly frustrated. If mangaed better, I believe the company could actually roll out the Model 3 in 2017 as planned. But in my mind there is absolutely, positively, 100% no chance this happens until at least late 2018, and meaningful deliveries beginning in 2019. Everyone knows this, and that could hamper Model 3 reservations, but that is irrelevant. What matters is their launch and ramp-up period, which will be incredibly delayed.

For the record, I am a model S owner, believe it's the best car on the planet right now, and am long in common shares.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I am also incredibly frustrated. If mangaed better, I believe the company could actually roll out the Model 3 in 2017 as planned. But in my mind there is absolutely, positively, 100% no chance this happens until at least late 2018, and meaningful deliveries beginning in 2019. Everyone knows this, and that could hamper Model 3 reservations, but that is irrelevant. What matters is their launch and ramp-up period, which will be incredibly delayed.

As frustrated as I am with the slow ramp of Model X, I don't think this automatically means that Model 3 will face similar delays.

Model X is substantially more complicated to build in volume than Model S. Elon's own admission is that Model X is the hardest car in the world to build, and that perhaps it should never have been so complicated. Information from shareholder conference calls indicates that Model 3 is much less adventurous than Model X. Tesla (and Elon in particular) seem to have been chastened by the experience of bringing Model X to production.

For a lower-priced electric sedan/hatchback, Tesla will not have to contend with developing a bio-filter HVAC system, novel Falcon Wing Doors, "sculptural art" 2nd row seats, towing, and who knows what else they built into Model X. That's not to say things can't go wrong and cause delays, but it's certainly not 100% assured that Model 3 will slip to 2019.

 

[jerry33]

When there is something they did right, I'll say it, just as I'll say it when they did something wrong. You can now set the pano roof to 15% for parking. Admittedly, you have to do it with the display rather than the scroll wheel, but after they turned the 15% off, you couldn't set it there with the display either.

 

[Andyw2100]

I am also incredibly frustrated. If mangaed better, I believe the company could actually roll out the Model 3 in 2017 as planned. But in my mind there is absolutely, positively, 100% no chance this happens until at least late 2018, and meaningful deliveries beginning in 2019. Everyone knows this, and that could hamper Model 3 reservations, but that is irrelevant. What matters is their launch and ramp-up period, which will be incredibly delayed.

I think a big potential problem is that everyone most certainly does not know this!

I'm not trying to make a statement on whether or not I believe Tesla will meet the target dates they have set. The point I am making is that those of us that have experience with Tesla and that have spent a lot of time researching what has gone on in the past understand that there is at least a very good chance that the timelines being set will not be met. But the average casual consumer probably has no idea that's the case. He or she will hear a bit about the Model 3, hear that it's due out in 2017, and if he or she is interested in the car will put down a $1000 deposit, fully expecting a new car in 2017. If the Model 3 is as hot right from the start as a lot of people expect it to be, then there will be a lot of people exactly like the ones I just described. If Tesla does miss the delivery dates with the Model 3, this group of people will be far less understanding than the Model S and Model X early adopters were.

 

[Auzie]

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......... there is, at least, a very good chance that the timelines being set will not be met.........

Agree, based on past history with Tesla self-imposed timelines, I would be surprised if there are no delays

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......... But the average casual consumer probably has no idea that's the case. He or she will hear a bit about the Model 3, hear that it's due out in 2017, and if he or she is interested in the car will put down a $1000 deposit, fully expecting a new car in 2017................

My expectation for an average customer putting a deposit on a Tesla car is that they will do at least some research before placing a deposit. Any minimum research on Tesla is likely to reveal Tesla's reputation regarding both cars quality and potential deliveries delays.

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........ If Tesla does miss the delivery dates with the Model 3, this group of people will be far less understanding than the Model S and Model X early adopters were.

I would expect the opposite. Early Tesla adopters seem to care a lot about their cars and consequently they seem to obsess about car performance and all other details related to the car.

Model 3 buyers are likely to include different, much wider, market segment. This segment overall is likely to include less wealthy people, and/or people less willing to pay a lot for a car. Some (perhaps many) customers in this segment are likely to be less interested in their cars than Model S and X owners are.

For some, perhaps many, customers in this segment, their car might be quite low on their hierarchy of life priorities considerations. My expectation for such segment not as obsessed with the car is that they are less likely to scrutinize the details of both car performance and potential delivery delays.

That said, it would be great if Tesla team effectively sets and manages the expectations of all customers, regardless of the segment.