I am completely confused about charging speeds

[markhank]

I am the new owner of a used 2016 Model S. I love it, but basically everything I thought I understood about charging speeds is wrong.

From my reading I understand that, with the exception of superchargers, I am effectively limited by the car to 11kw charging.

Have I got that right? So even if I plug into a 22kw charger from Source London or a 44kw charger from BP pulse I will still only get 11?

Does that apply only to AC charging, or does that apply to non-supercharger DC charging as well? Is all "type 2" charging AC? So for instance there's a bp pulse point near me which offers 43kw Type 2 and 50kw CCS - will I be limited to 11 in any case?

Will any of this change if I get the CCS upgrade (which I understand is £300) other than when I'm using a CCS plug? So does the CCS upgrade also unlimited type 2 charging to be above 11?

As you might guess from the above laundry list of questions I'm a little lost. Would appreciate some help or a link to an article which explains all of this.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

This might explain things for you

Charging a Tesla: Tesla Info

but in essence, AC charging uses a converter in the car to convert AC to DC and is limited to 11kw (it actually varies by model and 1 or 3 phases) whereas DC charging doesn’t use the onboard chargers/converters and car therefore go higher. Any DC charging (CCS, Chademo or supercharging) avoids the AC restriction.

 

[NorfolkMustard]

Older Model S had the option of two onboard chargers doubling the AC rate. You may have that, so 22kW rather than 11kW ( 11kW three-phase, 7.4kW single phase)

At home you’ll more than likely be limited to 7.4kW

get the CCS upgrade if you can, it will give you lots more options for CCS charging outside the tesla network. The CCS upgrade won’t change your AC charging capabilities though.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

In essence this comes down to the charger(s) being built-in to the car for AC charging, so the charge power is limited by them, whereas the charger is built in to the external box you plug into for DC charging, so is primarily limited by that. For all EVs, irrespective of make, having to have the AC charger built-in to the car poses a limitation, as there is only so big a unit that can be physically located somewhere in the car.

The AC charger(s) in a Tesla are typically limited to about 9 A DC at about 400 V output each, depending on model. There is an option to fit chargers rated at up to about 18 A DC each to the Model S, I believe. The 9 A DC (16 A AC) built-in chargers can be configured as a pair on single phase AC to deliver around 18 A DC at about 400 V to the battery, or they can be configured so all three are working from a 3 phase supply to deliver around 36 A DC to the battery This translates to about 32 A AC drawn from a single phase supply, or 16 A per phase drawn from a three phase supply. It's also why an AC charge point isn't a charger, it's just a switched AC power outlet, that supplies whatever the mains supply voltage is directly to the car.

A DC charger is a proper charger in every respect, as it can supply up 480 V DC at around 500 A or more (in the case of a V3 Supercharger) directly to the battery terminals in the car, and can modulate the charge voltage and current, in the same way as the DC voltage and current from the built-in AC charger(s) is modulated, depending on battery state of charge, but with a very much higher capacity, largely because of its size.

 

[GRiLLA]

You are on the right track. Get the CCS upgrade done then you have the best option for charging on the go, including at the v3 Superchargers and everywhere else with CCS.

AC charging is for overnight, at a train station, maybe at a workplace, places you car is going to be for several hours. It's not worth plugging in to these otherwise.

 

[ACarneiro]

In essence this comes down to the charger(s) being built-in to the car for AC charging, so the charge power is limited by them, whereas the charger is built in to the external box you plug into for DC charging, so is primarily limited by that. For all EVs, irrespective of make, having to have the AC charger built-in to the car poses a limitation, as there is only so big a unit that can be physically located somewhere in the car.

The AC charger(s) in a Tesla are typically limited to about 9 A DC at about 400 V output each, depending on model. There is an option to fit chargers rated at up to about 18 A DC each to the Model S, I believe. The 9 A DC (16 A AC) built-in chargers can be configured as a pair on single phase AC to deliver around 18 A DC at about 400 V to the battery, or they can be configured so all three are working from a 3 phase supply to deliver around 36 A DC to the battery This translates to about 32 A AC drawn from a single phase supply, or 16 A per phase drawn from a three phase supply. It's also why an AC charge point isn't a charger, it's just a switched AC power outlet, that supplies whatever the mains supply voltage is directly to the car.

A DC charger is a proper charger in every respect, as it can supply up 480 V DC at around 500 A or more (in the case of a V3 Supercharger) directly to the battery terminals in the car, and can modulate the charge voltage and current, in the same way as the DC voltage and current from the built-in AC charger(s) is modulated, depending on battery state of charge, but with a very much higher capacity, largely because of its size.

I always wondered: why the choice to pair 2 chargers for 32A single phase charging and not use all three chargers, thus drawing all 48A?
I know it’s steep but with the appropriate wiring, shouldn’t have been a great deal...

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I always wondered: why the choice to pair 2 chargers for 32A single phase charging and not use all three chargers, thus drawing all 48A?
I know it’s steep but with the appropriate wiring, shouldn’t have been a great deal...

In the US that is kind of how they do it as they allow 48A single phase

There is no approved 48A single phase supply in the regs in the UK as far as I can tell so it would be fairly pointless over here. Anything over 32A and you start having to have tethered cables like the AC charger side of Ecotricity charge points that few cars can make use of, but these are all 3 phase, and if they're 3 phase then you may as well use all three phases.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I always wondered: why the choice to pair 2 chargers for 32A single phase charging and not use all three chargers, thus drawing all 48A?
I know it’s steep but with the appropriate wiring, shouldn’t have been a great deal...

I've wondered the same. It's not a limit in terms of the max allowable single phase AC charge current in the spec, that allows much higher current than 32 A. I believe Tesla did offer a higher AC charge current option in the US at one time, too. The limit seems to be that Mode 2 is restricted to 32 A within the EU, not sure why, as the Mode 2 signalling system allows up to 80 A. There is a cable limitation, the standard 6mm² flex is OK for up to about 39 A or so, so anything over that would mean having a fatter cable, and the next size up is 10mm², which is a fair bit stiffer and harder to manhandle.