I got HW 4.0 but NO FSD Beta

[ewoodrick]

The subscription IS for THE same exact product. The FSD Capability package and NOT FSD Beta. Tesla even clearly states "Autosteer on city streets Coming Soon". Until it changes to an included feature it is NOT included.

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First, feel free to shrink your pastes to make them not as obnoxiously loud.

I know what FSD is. I have ti for 2 cars and first bought over 5 years ago.

What I am talking about is the MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION. And it's not the same as FSD being in beta, it's a problem because if you are currently in a non-FSD car, you are on a software release that does not allow FSD to be enabled. That's very different than it not working as to expectations.

 

[fasteddie7]

Anyone done a detailed study on HW4 sentry mode usage? Ie. Does the chip have a lower power mode for sentry?

I think greentheonly had previously posted that max power usage would be higher, but equally think the new cameras had lower usage

Don’t know if this will help, but my HW4 Model S with the 1Tb Tesla drive uses roughly 4% every 12 hours during the day with cabin overheat at 100 degrees, around 2-3% in the evening 12 hours at night for sentry.

 

[freek4iphone]

The subscription IS for THE same exact product. The FSD Capability package and NOT FSD Beta. Tesla even clearly states "Autosteer on city streets Coming Soon". Until it changes to an included feature it is NOT included.

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As a consumer, is there anyone who was ecstatic spending money on "Capability" alone? but not being able to use the actual FSD beta? I would love to meet that person. to that person.

 

[JulienW]

As a consumer, is there anyone who was ecstatic spending money on "Capability" alone? but not being able to use the actual FSD beta? I would love to meet that person. to that person.

I agree and also think Tesla does a terrible job communicating what you get, how they package the offerings, the nomenclature used, communicating what they are doing, when and what to expect, etc.

However I'm just a messenger and presenting the fact that FSD Beta is NOT part of FSD Capability, as beyond obtuse as that seems to you and ME also.

I suspect that Autosteer on city street will become a feature of the package (and FSD Beta included) in the next few months. But HELL Elon says we will all have L4 before the end of the year (again) so who knows.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I know what FSD is. I have ti for 2 cars and first bought over 5 years ago.

What I am talking about is the MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION. And it's not the same as FSD being in beta, it's a problem because if you are currently in a non-FSD car, you are on a software release that does not allow FSD to be enabled. That's very different than it not working as to expectations.

It still sounds like you are conflating the two.

All software allows FSD. Only FSD Beta software allows the use of FSD Beta.

This has always been the case and why people on subscription or who have purchased FSD have waited months to get into FSD Beta, but they still get NoA, the car will stop at red lights/stop signs and until the removal of HW4 would get Summon and Auto-park. These are the features that come with FSD purchase or subscription. Beta is not a guarantee and never has been.

Currently with Summon and Auto-park not available, the only thing FSD subscription (or purchase) gives you is NoA and stopping at stop signs and red lights. It still doesn't appear that Tesla is willing to refund monthly subscriptions in these cases, though.

 

[ewoodrick]

It still sounds like you are conflating the two.

All software allows FSD. Only FSD Beta software allows the use of FSD Beta.

This has always been the case and why people on subscription or who have purchased FSD have waited months to get into FSD Beta, but they still get NoA, the car will stop at red lights/stop signs and until the removal of HW4 would get Summon and Auto-park. These are the features that come with FSD purchase or subscription. Beta is not a guarantee and never has been.

Currently with Summon and Auto-park not available, the only thing FSD subscription (or purchase) gives you is NoA and stopping at stop signs and red lights. It still doesn't appear that Tesla is willing to refund monthly subscriptions in these cases, though.

There is no FSD Beta. All people are eligible now.

 

[uscbucsfan]

There is no FSD Beta. All people are eligible now.

That's completely false, but if you think that I understand your confusion.

 

[ewoodrick]

I agree and also think Tesla does a terrible job communicating what you get, how they package the offerings, the nomenclature used, communicating what they are doing, when and what to expect, etc.

However I'm just a messenger and presenting the fact that FSD Beta is NOT part of FSD Capability, as beyond obtuse as that seems to you and ME also.

I suspect that Autosteer on city street will become a feature of the package (and FSD Beta included) in the next few months. But HELL Elon says we will all have L4 before the end of the year (again) so who knows.

That's completely false, but if you think that I understand your confusion.

Why do you say that?

What there is, is different branches of software. And that's mainly because of the recent changes in some cars. My cars are running the older software, which has the functional FSD.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Why do you say that?

What there is, is different branches of software. And that's mainly because of the recent changes in some cars. My cars are running the older software, which has the functional FSD.

There's FSD, which doesn't have city streets, yet. It's coming soon. FSD is EAP with stop sign/red light recognition and still uses legacy AP stack for Navigate on Autopilot.

There's FSD Beta which is a program that Tesla allows new testers into to test city streets/single stack on highways, but no one (purchase or subscribe) is guaranteed.

The Beta program currently has 2 tracks (3 actually):

11.4.X- Long time testers and the only version that works with HW4. Tesla is limiting this software behind it's base software versioning. 11.4.5, which is in employee testing is still in the 2023.7.X versioning, which prevents the newest deliveries from trying.

11.3.6- A very stable version of Beta Tesla is rolling out to new owners/subscribers. This version works with HW3 with and without USS, but does not work with HW4.

I forgot about the MCU 1 Beta: 10.69.3.3...still uses NoA on highway.

 

[ewoodrick]

Do you not remember the announcement? Tesla Full Self-Driving Beta is now available to all owners in North America

Right now, AFAIK, the only limitations are when you got your car and when you got FSD. And that's because of the current branching issue. The HW4 folks that are running it, got it, because they had it when 11.4.4 rolled out. For all those since then, there hasn't been a newer branch.

It's simple timing, not a nefarious scheme.

What proof do you have?

 

[uscbucsfan]

Do you not remember the announcement? Tesla Full Self-Driving Beta is now available to all owners in North America

Right now, AFAIK, the only limitations are when you got your car and when you got FSD. And that's because of the current branching issue. The HW4 folks that are running it, got it, because they had it when 11.4.4 rolled out. For all those since then, there hasn't been a newer branch.

It's simple timing, not a nefarious scheme.

What proof do you have?

That was true for the moment (literally not even 2 weeks), but not any longer.

Tesla could easily make 11.4.X in the 2023.20.X versioning, but they aren't. They are using 11.3.6, which is a more stable version, but not suitable for HW4 cars.

Tesla isn't dumb. Just like with 10.69, they are intentionally keeping MCU 1 cars at a specific version. They are specifically and intentionally keeping new testers from getting 11.4.

The proof is more than any announcement from Elon, look around these forums or on Teslafi/Teslascope.

FSD Beta and FSD are still 2 separate things, per Tesla. They are giving out free trials 3 month of FSD, but it's not Beta. Tesla still says that city streets are coming for FSD, but we have it on Beta.

 

[ewoodrick]

That was true for the moment (literally not even 2 weeks), but not any longer.

Tesla could easily make 11.4.X in the 2023.20.X versioning, but they aren't. They are using 11.3.6, which is a more stable version, but not suitable for HW4 cars.

Tesla isn't dumb. Just like with 10.69, they are intentionally keeping MCU 1 cars at a specific version. They are specifically and intentionally keeping new testers from getting 11.4.

The proof is more than any announcement from Elon, look around these forums or on Teslafi/Teslascope.

FSD Beta and FSD are still 2 separate things, per Tesla. They are giving out free trials 3 month of FSD, but it's not Beta. Tesla still says that city streets are coming for FSD, but we have it on Beta.

You can leave MCU 1 cars out of the discussion, they tend to have a different issue.

I thought that you said that 11.4.X is the ONLY version that runs on HW4?

Or maybe the reality is that there is problems with FSD and HW4 that they don't want to propagate more than there currently is. And that's what they've been working on is getting the FSD stack updated to better support HW4.

And that's what I'm saying, it's NOT a case of

easily make 11.4.X in the 2023.20.X versioning

 

[freek4iphone]

To me, who has a HW4.0 Model Y. I absolutely don't mind waiting for a few weeks, or even months before I can use the Autosteer on city streets (Fsdb). My main problem as a consumer is that I paid for a subscription just to test Autosteer on city streets and there was no "official" way for me to find out whether it will work or not and when will it work. But I paid for it anyways and everyday checking if I will receive an update.

But after paying for it and after reading 100's of forum messages, Now I learned there is NO Guarantee one would receive Fsdb. I am totally cool with it now, but all that trouble for last few weeks could have been avoided. The onus of finding out the intricacies is on the consumer instead of Tesla making it easier.

How's that a great experience for a consumer?

 

[uscbucsfan]

You can leave MCU 1 cars out of the discussion, they tend to have a different issue.

I thought that you said that 11.4.X is the ONLY version that runs on HW4?

Or maybe the reality is that there is problems with FSD and HW4 that they don't want to propagate more than there currently is. And that's what they've been working on is getting the FSD stack updated to better support HW4.

And that's what I'm saying, it's NOT a case of

11.4.X is the only FSD that supports HW4 currently. I didn't say anything to contradict that.

If that was the case, why would they allow other HW4 to continue with 11.4 or why would they not create resolutions in 11.4.2,3,4 or the upcoming 5?

Tesla has always held cars off of being Beta testers with software versioning, since the beginning. They let in testers and then keep software far enough back to prevent new ones from entering.

The fact is FSD Beta is not open to anyone, currently. They are still offering free trials, subscriptions, and sales and letting people use FSD, not Beta.

 

[freek4iphone]

11.4.X is the only FSD that supports HW4 currently. I didn't say anything to contradict that.

If that was the case, why would they allow other HW4 to continue with 11.4 or why would they not create resolutions in 11.4.2,3,4 or the upcoming 5?

Tesla has always held cars off of being Beta testers with software versioning, since the beginning. They let in testers and then keep software far enough back to prevent new ones from entering.

The fact is FSD Beta is not open to anyone, currently. They are still offering free trials, subscriptions, and sales and letting people use FSD, not Beta.

think of how disappointed people will feel who bought into "3 month free FSD" and rushed in to get that benefit only to later realize they won't be able to use it as the new one's are all HW4.0 and currently not supported

 

[uscbucsfan]

think of how disappointed people will feel who bought into "3 month free FSD" and rushed in to get that benefit only to later realize they won't be able to use it as the new one's are all HW4.0 and currently not supported

They can still use FSD, just not beta. Tesla knew what they were offering when they enabled that trial.

 

[freek4iphone]

They can still use FSD, just not beta. Tesla knew what they were offering when they enabled that trial.

Yes you are right, Tesla knew, no one is denying that. But consumers didn't know. that's the whole point.

 

[fasteddie7]

Yes you are right, Tesla knew, no one is denying that. But consumers didn't know. that's the whole point.

I don't know that a consumer that didn't follow a forum like this would even know about FSDb as it's not mentioned anywhere on the order page. What is mentioned there is currently delivered with the exception of summon and auto park, but I believe there's a disclaimer in the app after ordering for that as there was for me.

 

[ewoodrick]

They can still use FSD, just not beta. Tesla knew what they were offering when they enabled that trial.

There is no difference. NO ONE HAS FSD, it's ALL BETA right now.

 

[uscbucsfan]

There is no difference. NO ONE HAS FSD, it's ALL BETA right now.

lol.

At least 99% of the forum understands...you can't help them all.