I ordered a Performance 3. The car at delivery was an AWD.

[Canikony]

I love how people first claimed the motors were binned.. now they are saying its the inverters... I think we will find out eventually that it is purely software.

 

[TT97]

I love how people first claimed the motors were binned.. now they are saying its the inverters... I think we will find out eventually that it is purely software.

People are saying motors are binned because Elon said that:

Twitter

AC induction front & switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet rear. Silicon Carbide inverters in both. Performance drive units are lot sorted for highest sigma output & get double the burn-in.​

 

[Jedi2155]

I would believe the Tyco Road store. It matches what I know about engineering.

Maybe half the AWDs are unlockable, but I am damn sure *some are not*. If they start offering upgrades, *only some people will have the option*.

Yes, this means some AWD owners got "good bin" motors and others got "so so bin" motors, and they are not telling you which you got. Makes sense. If you unlock the "so so bin" motors they probably overheat.

This would be a terrible PR nightmare because of the following:

1. If binning occurs: Some AWD owners find out their AWD is worse than another's AWD because they can't "unlock". AWD will be up in arms
2. If binning does not occur: P3D owners are up in arms because they were lied to.

What’s your source for that info?

We were hearing a month ago that there HAD to be a hardware difference in P versions and that there was no way it was simply a software switch.

I the inverter vs. motor binning is purely conjecture with no hard evidence proving one or the other. The inverter binning makes more sense than the motor binning though but it doesn't mean it can't happen. If you recall the first P85's had hand wound motors for better performance than the machine wound ones. The hand winding was more accurate which results in less eddy currents and heat losses in the motor windings.

What chips are you referring to? The power electronics in an inverter (which determine its maximum output) are either built using discrete transistors or packaged power modules. I'm not an expert in this field, but I've never heard of part binning for those either.

I began researching this topic some more and found that silicon carbide inverters have significant performance differences based on temperature (see attached). Transistors and electronics in general have hugely different performance depending on batches and are usually sorted based on performance (+/- 5% vs 10% resistors anyone?).

The attached paper analyzes their thermal performance. I believe I mentioned elsewhere that in a typical power converter H-Bridge, you'll want matching pairs FETs for the inverters (the sorting for sigma part), and good thermal performance for all of them (the double the burn in part).


As I've said before, I'm "guessing" only the P3D+ models are properly binned, and the only ones that might eventually receive the ludicrous update as been argued by @Maximilien and @MXWing among others.

Its part of the reason I convinced myself to switch to a the + model hahaha, or at least what I tell myself at night when I realize I spent way outside my budget......

 

[mobilesuit818]

P3D+ is pretty pricey.

I’m coming back due to a buyback and considering the P3D+..

 

[The805]

It's BRAKES d@mn it! Although you did get it right the second time!

Sorry my bad, its bin a realy long dey...

 

[Jedi2155]

Sorry my bad, its bin a realy long dey...

Its the best car....its the worse car....but it will be YOUR car . Need a referral code?

 

[kbecks13]

I love how people first claimed the motors were binned.. now they are saying its the inverters... I think we will find out eventually that it is purely software.

My theory is that only the P3D+ is binned due to:

A) fewer production numbers so you can actually DO binning. If both P3D types get "the best" parts, then thats maybe 70-80th percentile. If it's only the P3D+, it's maybe 90th+ which actually gives something worthwhile.

B) P3D+ gets the "performance chassis" and could be segregated by that when being built in Fremont. They would then put the binned motors in anything with that chassis.

 

[Lunares]

P is more than just a software unlock, but it also requires a software unlock. If they didn't unlock the software (for whatever accidental reason) then yes they would have had to do so on OP's vehicle and it would show as AWD until they did.

P3D+ wheels have a different shaped hub that's why other wheels don't work on them

 

[Jedi2155]

My theory is that only the P3D+ is binned due to:

A) fewer production numbers so you can actually DO binning. If both P3D types get "the best" parts, then thats maybe 70-80th percentile. If it's only the P3D+, it's maybe 90th+ which actually gives something worthwhile.
B) P3D+ gets the "performance chassis" and could be segregated by that when being built in Fremont. They would then put the binned motors in anything with that chassis.

From Troy's tracker, roughly 6-8% of orders are P3D's (+ and -) which translates to roughly 6000-8000 vehicles of what they've delivered so far. I think its reasonable for them to have binned both.

 

[kbecks13]

From Troy's tracker, roughly 6-8% of orders are P3D's (+ and -) which translates to roughly 6000-8000 vehicles of what they've delivered so far. I think its reasonable for them to have binned both.

Oh snap that is interesting, you have a source for that/where is this tracker?

 

[Jedi2155]

Oh snap that is interesting, you have a source for that/where is this tracker?

Model 3 Order Tracking Spreadsheet

 

[eddyhttp]

Oops wrong link. Could this be evidence that the Performance Model 3 is actually just a software uncorking for the All Wheel Drive? Owner claims his P3D- isn't performance and has Tesla Service run a diagnostic, they agree the performance features were not installed and then download the proper configuration. • r/teslamotors

 

[TEG]

I love how people first claimed the motors were binned.. now they are saying its the inverters... I think we will find out eventually that it is purely software.

Not sure how many old timers here remember when the "Roadster Sport" was announced, but it was a similar story of confusion over details.
Tesla said "hand wound motors" but people speculated it was just a firmware difference. Over time we found Sport and non-Sport roadsters had mis-matched motor and PEMs. I don't think we ever really got a very sure idea of what exactly was different there.

 

[Jedi2155]

Thats most interesting about the motor/PEM. What was mismatching about it?

I looked up what a PEM is and realize they were still using IGBTs back then. I have this nice reminder of an IGBT that blew due to a overload/mismatch in one of my projects 7 years ago...good learning.

 

[TEG]

The Sport Roadsters came with a PEM with a "Sport" label on it. There were some reports that the "Sport" PEMs had extra IGBTs, or maybe just different firmware to send more current to the motor. But then sometimes people had a PEM go bad and the service center would put a non-Sport PEM and say it was fine and they would get the same performance.

There was an "S" label on Motors intended to go into Sport models, but I think we saw some Roadsters with the wrong motor for the car.

 

[yul sam]

I have an interesting data point to add that I may make into a seperate post....

When I received delivery of mine there was a fairly major paint problem. We even talked about switching it for another similar car from the lot if they had one.

One of the employees said, "There are only a few performance models here, so it might be hard to do." Now, I didn't order a P model, just AWD. I chalked it up to tiredness as it was late at night.

A couple days later I'm looking monroney label and found that the main heading says Long Range AWD, but the options are mostly wrong.

My config was AWD, white interior, FSD, 19" wheels . Here is my monroney options rundown:
View attachment 338725

They also specifically mentioned not being able to swap parts or tires. What is going on in the delivery process that this happens? My vin is 107***.

@eric1856

I did not get a Monroney sticker but yours would have been the right one for my car.

Could you please check “View Car Details” in your Tesla account, does it show the correct car options as delivered or is it the same as the Monroney sticker.

 

[Silver Ghost]

It may be a software thing. The way Tesla is reporting the VIN’s the 8 digit is a B for both AWD and P cars.

In model S or X. The P cars have a 4 not B in that slot to note P status.

Has it’s benefits though. Cheaper insurance as the insurance is base off the VIN.

 

[KenF]

Has it’s benefits though. Cheaper insurance as the insurance is base off the VIN.

I wonder...If you are in an accident, and your car is totaled, does the insurance payout reflect the AWD or the P-AWD? What about the Performance add-on?

 

[Stellavator]

I would bet that at some point, probably after the S refresh, Tesla will bump the speeds of all 3s just a bit.

As to the P being just a software unlock, maybe so. But either way, I'm guessing there will be either a Tesla sanctioned, or a hack uncork option for the AWD. If by Tesla, it will be something short of the P.

 

[PhaseWhite]

What’s your source for that info?

I should have been more verbose (blame typing on the phone), but just pointing out that IF something is binned it's the chips. I was replying to below which was skeptical there's anything worth binning. When infact the inverters are semiconductors.

I highly doubt there is any "binning" of the electric motors. Motors are relatively simple machines that aren't difficult to assemble to specification, not complex semiconductors with error prone production processes.