I ordered a Performance 3. The car at delivery was an AWD.

[mongo]

tl;dr; All Ps can be AWD, but not all AWDs can be Ps.

The drive unit is the combination of the motor proper, gears, and drive electronics. The entire drive unit is tested and binned and results stored in the central database and likely the drive unit itself (max current calibration?). Based on those results, it is either determined to be good enough to be a P, or not. A P level unit can be used in an AWD, but a non-P level unit cannot be used in a P. So you can have an AWD that could have been a P, and indeed can still be configured as such, but not every AWD can do that.

 

[Msjulie]

It may be a software thing. The way Tesla is reporting the VIN’s the 8 digit is a B for both AWD and P cars.

There's a "silver lining" here someplace too - insurance companies don't seem to know their is a P when your car doesn't have the 20" wheels etc add ons

 

[voip-ninja]

tl;dr; All Ps can be AWD, but not all AWDs can be Ps.

The drive unit is the combination of the motor proper, gears, and drive electronics. The entire drive unit is tested and binned and results stored in the central database and likely the drive unit itself (max current calibration?). Based on those results, it is either determined to be good enough to be a P, or not. A P level unit can be used in an AWD, but a non-P level unit cannot be used in a P. So you can have an AWD that could have been a P, and indeed can still be configured as such, but not every AWD can do that.

We still don't know that. Proof of that would be someone getting delivery of AWD instead of P and Tesla indicates they need a new vehicle to flip the switch and make it into a P. AFAIK we have not yet seen a case of that happening.

I do believe based on all of this anecdotal information we've seen trickling out that the only thing holding P and AWD variants from serious performance times is software and a desire not to tarnish image of the S and X. It would not surprise me if to keep pace with rivals Tesla increases the speed of both variants early next year via software uncorking but I guess we will see.

 

[mongo]

We still don't know that. Proof of that would be someone getting delivery of AWD instead of P and Tesla indicates they need a new vehicle to flip the switch and make it into a P. AFAIK we have not yet seen a case of that happening.

I do believe based on all of this anecdotal information we've seen trickling out that the only thing holding P and AWD variants from serious performance times is software and a desire not to tarnish image of the S and X. It would not surprise me if to keep pace with rivals Tesla increases the speed of both variants early next year via software uncorking but I guess we will see.

True, the current drive unit production could all be P capable, which would theoretically mean more efficient/ better range for AWD owners also. There is still the factor of the mentioned double burn in time, so even if they are all good enough, they would not all be double validated (waste of test machine time).

The other reason to limit performance is lifetime/ warranty. The closer to the design limits, the faster things will fail.

 

[SION1771]

We still don't know that. Proof of that would be someone getting delivery of AWD instead of P and Tesla indicates they need a new vehicle to flip the switch and make it into a P. AFAIK we have not yet seen a case of that happening.

I do believe based on all of this anecdotal information we've seen trickling out that the only thing holding P and AWD variants from serious performance times is software and a desire not to tarnish image of the S and X. It would not surprise me if to keep pace with rivals Tesla increases the speed of both variants early next year via software uncorking but I guess we will see.

I'm not sure "hey, thanks to all the suckers out there for spending the extra $10k on a P, but we now think 4.5 seconds isn't fast enough so we're going to let everyone have this upgrade for free" seems like goodwill to those who spent the money. Unless the Ps are further upgraded too, maybe.

 

[PessimiStick]

One thing I know is that the car is still AWD in my "view car details" page on my Tesla account.

All cars show that way, as far as I know. i.e. my car:

 

[voip-ninja]

I'm not sure "hey, thanks to all the suckers out there for spending the extra $10k on a P, but we now think 4.5 seconds isn't fast enough so we're going to let everyone have this upgrade for free" seems like goodwill to those who spent the money. Unless the Ps are further upgraded too, maybe.

Tesla is never going to give owners a free P upgrade. What they could do is increase AWD to 3.9 seconds and increase P to 2.9 seconds or similar. I don't know though if those upgrades would be free.

I do know that from a "stoplight drag race" perspective the AWD, especially after price hike to $6,000, is poorest value right now since it is only .5 seconds faster than RWD.

 

[ngogas]

I think the AWD motors itself and the battery packs that they use are software driven and so i can see how they can enabled performance on non-P. As for the P itself, they probably have sports suspension thus it is a tad lower then then the non-P?

I'd check to make sure you have the hardware for the P and not just the software that is needed to make it go 3.5 seconds. That is a lot of money, 10k, for just a software update.

 

[mongo]

I think the AWD motors itself and the battery packs that they use are software driven and so i can see how they can enabled performance on non-P. As for the P itself, they probably have sports suspension thus it is a tad lower then then the non-P?

I'd check to make sure you have the hardware for the P and not just the software that is needed to make it go 3.5 seconds. That is a lot of money, 10k, for just a software update.

Noticeable hardware changes are on the additional $5k P upgrade package (beyond the stock P version).
P has guaranteed better motor pair and increased power limits.

 

[voip-ninja]

I think the AWD motors itself and the battery packs that they use are software driven and so i can see how they can enabled performance on non-P. As for the P itself, they probably have sports suspension thus it is a tad lower then then the non-P?

I'd check to make sure you have the hardware for the P and not just the software that is needed to make it go 3.5 seconds. That is a lot of money, 10k, for just a software update.

You are confusing P- and P+. P- are physically indistinguishable from AWD cars. We don't know if there is any binning of parts being done. We DO know that there have been cases of cars with AWD monroney stickers being reconfigured to P- and sold that way.

Noticeable hardware changes are on the additional $5k P upgrade package (beyond the stock P version).
P has guaranteed better motor pair and increased power limits.

You and I don't know that the motors in a P+ or P- are any better than the motors in an AWD. Tesla says that they double burn in on the P motors and they test better but we don't know if ALL of them are in fact getting that testing right now, especially in this current production push.

 

[ngogas]

You and I don't know that the motors in a P+ or P- are any better than the motors in an AWD. Tesla says that they double burn in on the P motors and they test better but we don't know if ALL of them are in fact getting that testing right now, especially in this current production push.

What is "double burn in"?

 

[mongo]

What is "double burn in"?

Per a tweet, they test P motors twice as long as normal (and I would assume at a higher power level).
as @voip-ninja mentions, we do not have clarity on what % are tested that way or what %pass.

 

[Eno Deb]

I should have been more verbose (blame typing on the phone), but just pointing out that IF something is binned it's the chips. I was replying to below which was skeptical there's anything worth binning. When infact the inverters are semiconductors.

Not all semiconductors are suitable for part binning. Binning is usually only done for complex chip designs that have imperfect manufacturing processes and often quite low yield rates. Transistors for power electronics are different beasts (and not "chips").

 

[Nocturnal]

That would be a nice option down the road.
I think if this was ever possible, it would never happen unless the risk of pissing off all performance owners was for some reason, a non issue.
Not sure how that would be possible, but who knows.
Anything is possible.

As long as there is a cost parity to the unlock I don't know how anyone could get mad. Sure, I'd be annoyed if next year they gave it away for a grand, but that's not likely.

It is also possible that some P cars accidentally receive the non-P software.

 

[mongo]

Not all semiconductors are suitable for part binning. Binning is usually only done for complex chip designs that have imperfect manufacturing processes and often quite low yield rates. Transistors for power electronics are different beasts (and not "chips").

All parts have a parameter range, power devices especially. DIY audio amp builders match all the output device transfer curves to ensure current sharing for instance.

 

[Glamisduner]

EAP is a software unlock too, the car already has all the hardware, same for FSD. I don't think Tesla will be giving away eap or fsd for a grand anytime soon.

But of course if it is just software, FSD seems like it would be a several magnitudes of difficulty greater to develop.

 

[Nocturnal]

Tesla is never going to give owners a free P upgrade. What they could do is increase AWD to 3.9 seconds and increase P to 2.9 seconds or similar. I don't know though if those upgrades would be free.

I do know that from a "stoplight drag race" perspective the AWD, especially after price hike to $6,000, is poorest value right now since it is only .5 seconds faster than RWD.

That's normal though. Many cars offer AWD versions that are the exact same speed or maybe slower.

 

[Eno Deb]

That's normal though. Many cars offer AWD versions that are the exact same speed or maybe slower.

They usually don't have two engines though. The dual motor approach is unique in the sense that it doesn't just send torque to all 4 wheels but also potentially adds more power to the car.

 

[Nocturnal]

They usually don't have two engines though. The dual motor approach is unique in the sense that it doesn't just send torque to all 4 wheels but also potentially adds more power to the car.

Yeah, but I mean from a pure dollars/performance angle. People who buy the awd 3 series cars don't mind the price increase without a big HP bump.

 

[voip-ninja]

Yeah, but I mean from a pure dollars/performance angle. People who buy the awd 3 series cars don't mind the price increase without a big HP bump.

Price to go to x-drive on the BMW is $2500 not $6,000.

x-drive offers no power increase just adds about 200 lbs of weight and more traction.

Tesla adds over 100 horsepower (I'd say very conservatively) and 200 lbs weight. It should be way more than .5 seconds faster in a spring than the RWD model.