I ordered a Performance 3. The car at delivery was an AWD.

[mongo]

To justified the price difference between the AWD and Performance Model even Elon Musk cares since he has publicly eluded that some parts may be binned or spent extra time in the burn process to make them more appropriate for the higher requirement needed for the performance version. It's just that Tesla has not made this clear if this is indeed true. I personally care because I think it shifts the value proposition toward AWD more if it is just the software. If it is the software only enhancement, AWD will definitely be the more reliable vehicle since it can also take the stress of being a performance model as well. And as a performance model the motors may have higher failure rate after the warranty period is over versus the AWD. This possibility matters to me even if this does not matter to you. But, despite all that, currently, I am immensely enjoying my P3D+ more each day for what it is!

Regarding warranty, I'd be more concerned with the half shafts and suspension than the drive unit. The P is not built any more durably, to my knowledge.

If you are woried about reliability, drive your P like an AWD, enable chill mode, or request a downgrade. Any system's lifetime is related to the usage and duty cycle. If you drive it hard, it will not last as long.

 

[Perry]

If you drive it hard, it will not last as long.

Unless it is built to be driven harder as the performance model should be.

 

[mongo]

Unless it is built to be driven harder as the performance model should be.

Even something build to last longer / more severe duty cycle will last even longer it not pushed to its limits.

My personal opinion is the difference is the amount of heat generation/ shedding the drive unit can do. That is the main complaint of S/X, they overheat on the track. An AWD might only do 3 laps, whereas P would do 5+? or 3 at a higher speed.

I also had another, there is the SiC power part variability, but there is also the heat sink interface. Assuming some interface material between the power devices and the heat sink, that is another potential source of variation.

 

[Gary B]

Hi. I'm new to the forum and wanted to ask a question. I have been reading all the posts about whether a car is a P or not and whether it's a SW update or what. When I read the owner's manual, I noticed that the brake specs are different for P vs. non-P. If that is true, wouldn't the car need to be different for it be a P or not irrespective of any SW update from the dealer?

 

[Daniel in SD]

The powertrain warranty is 8 year/120k. You might be better off with the AWD converted to P because you'll get a new improved drive unit before the warranty is up

 

[mongo]

Hi. I'm new to the forum and wanted to ask a question. I have been reading all the posts about whether a car is a P or not and whether it's a SW update or what. When I read the owner's manual, I noticed that the brake specs are different for P vs. non-P. If that is true, wouldn't the car need to be different for it be a P or not irrespective of any SW update from the dealer?

Not sure which version manual you have, but the Performance with performance pack is the one with different brakes. The was a time when all Ps were going to have the larger brakes, possibly .

 

[Gary B]

Not sure which version manual you have, but the Performance with performance pack is the one with different brakes. The was a time when all Ps were going to have the larger brakes, possibly .

I was reading the manual that is on the website. On page 140 it talks about the brake rotors and pads for P and non P models. The Performance upgrade package is non mentioned in the manual, as best as I can see. I am assuming the manual on the web would be the latest version.

 

[mongo]

I was reading the manual that is on the website. On page 140 it talks about the brake rotors and pads for P and non P models. The Performance upgrade package is non mentioned in the manual, as best as I can see. I am assuming the manual on the web would be the latest version.

It should be, apparently they didn't update it yet.

 

[AnesDragon]

Regarding warranty, I'd be more concerned with the half shafts and suspension than the drive unit. The P is not built any more durably, to my knowledge.

If you are worried about reliability, drive your P like an AWD, enable chill mode, or request a downgrade. Any system's lifetime is related to the usage and duty cycle. If you drive it hard, it will not last as long.

I agree with you. it's just that those of us who bought a performance version just wanted to feel better about our cars. That it was built to the performance standard which should be higher durability at a higher g-force than the AWD variant in terms of supporting hardware rather than just a software switch. We paid enough differential in cost to upgrade so it does not make sense for us to buy a performance version then tone down our driving style to accommodate the lack of hardware support. We were all buying into it thinking that Tesla engineers would make sure the Performance is designed to handle the stress of the driving style better than the AWD variant that it was intended for including track mode.

 

[djgarrett21]

I don't understand the angst caused by the notion that AWD and P cars are differentiated by a software lock. In the end P owners get the same thing regardless if the difference is hardware or software.

The act of binning is in itself a confirmation that the hardware is the same - you can't bin parts that are of different specifications.

"Binning" and "double burn-in" is probably all marketing hype and likely makes little to no discernible difference in performance or longevity, folks getting their AWD cars flashed to P is confirmation of that.

All AWD and P cars are built to a "performance standard" (if there is such a thing), only difference is that P cars have the enhanced performance enabled, AWD does not. Same situation with Autopilot/FSD - all M3s have the hardware but you have to pay to unlock the functionality (software).

 

[rob968]

My guess is it comes from the concept that Tesla is creating an artificial model tier by holding back performance that should be accessible. Even if not up to full P standards, the AWD clearly has more than its mapped to do right now. The EAP is a little more justifiable because while it is just a software switch to enable, there's constant R&D going into it for continual improvement, and that R&D is NOT cheap. The AWD to P change is a single software flash for different mapping, accessing something that's sitting there, waiting on every AWD car. Not that much different than unlocking more battery capacity in some of the S models through a software switch.

 

[Gary B]

The manual has a date of 8/1/2018

 

[mongo]

The manual has a date of 8/1/2018

Yeah, that is for the Performance plus upgrade package with 20" rims.

 

[Gary B]

I hear you but that is not what it says. I guess the best way to know is to measure the rotor diameter and see what size it is on the Performance model without the upgrade. Look at page 140. It talks about non-performance and performance and not about any upgrade. if what you say is correct, what are you paying 9K more for- one second faster and 10 mph more? Are there any other improvements to warrant the price increase?

 

[AnesDragon]

I don't understand the angst caused by the notion that AWD and P cars are differentiated by a software lock. In the end P owners get the same thing regardless if the difference is hardware or software.

The act of binning is in itself a confirmation that the hardware is the same - you can't bin parts that are of different specifications.

"Binning" and "double burn-in" is probably all marketing hype and likely makes little to no discernible difference in performance or longevity, folks getting their AWD cars flashed to P is confirmation of that.

All AWD and P cars are built to a "performance standard" (if there is such a thing), only difference is that P cars have the enhanced performance enabled, AWD does not. Same situation with Autopilot/FSD - all M3s have the hardware but you have to pay to unlock the functionality (software).

I noticed you are driving the AWD version. This observation was not meant to be snooty but just trying to understand where you are coming from. I would have likely felt little better about making AWD purchase if I also found out that it might be just a pure software switch if I were in your position. Because it is definitely the better value proposition knowing that it could be software unlocked to better performance in the future without any compromise in the hardware if Tesla let it. That has some future value. So I do understand the position you take. But I would also feel really bad for the person who took the delivery of P3D- and realized later that it was set for AWD and then just switched last minute "hocus pocus" magically into P3D- with the same VIN number. Leaving that person wondering about having the right Monroney Window Stickers correctly reflecting his actual vehicle and worth, as proof in the future for possible resale. Nevermind wondering about is it correctly spec'ed in the hardware department to correctly handle the upgraded software. I think I would have worried as well as if some type of scam is going on. Only because Tesla itself has caused this confusion and has not officially cleared this matter. Of course, if I ordered an AWD and somehow got the performance upgraded software already installed free, I would like "yea awesome", just human nature. Thankfully I go P3D+ variant so it was easily discernable even physically from the AWD version and even some differences in the hardware such as better tires and brakes and possible suspension changes that clearly differentiates from the AWD version although paying extra for it. That was another reason why I did pay for the + including the possibility of track capable out of the gate with future track mode. Although I also did not receive any Monroney window sticker because it was promptly removed predelivery so am not sure what it stated. I thought it was by law that they have to provide it to you during the purchase process stated by some other forum member. Do I need to formally ask for it? Does anyone know if this is necessary for a resale? Is MVPA not enough evidence for the insurance company or the buyer?

 

[mike123abc]

If it is a software switch, I wonder how many would consider paying to unlock “Performance”?

I went back and forth when ordering between AWD and PAWD. In the end I went with AWD, but I almost have some regrets. Almost meaning that I would be more likely to go with a PAWD model next vehicle. But, if suddenly PAWD was available as an unlock, I am not sure I would do it... I think I might in the end, but it would require a lot of thought.

 

[mongo]

I hear you but that is not what it says. I guess the best way to know is to measure the rotor diameter and see what size it is on the Performance model without the upgrade. Look at page 140. It talks about non-performance and performance and not about any upgrade. if what you say is correct, what are you paying 9K more for- one second faster and 10 mph more? Are there any other improvements to warrant the price increase?

I agree the wording is ambiguous, but there are other threads on here that show only the P+ has different brakes.

 

[The805]

I agree with you. it's just that those of us who bought a performance version just wanted to feel better about our cars. That it was built to the performance standard which should be higher durability at a higher g-force than the AWD variant in terms of supporting hardware rather than just a software switch. We paid enough differential in cost to upgrade so it does not make sense for us to buy a performance version then tone down our driving style to accommodate the lack of hardware support. We were all buying into it thinking that Tesla engineers would make sure the Performance is designed to handle the stress of the driving style better than the AWD variant that it was intended for including track mode.

Look I hear you that people want to feel better about their purchase, and the high incremental cost between AWD and P3D- (by having a hw difference). I'm one of those folks who splurged for the P3D-. However, Tesla is changing the auto business in more ways than one. They are pioneering new business models (relative to the auto industry) by allowing features of the car to be enabled/disabled by a sw lock. It simplifies their design, manufacturing and inventory management while at the same time allowing for upsells. They've also figured out that a number of people willing to pay significant $$ for the additional performance. Down the road they may even try to switch some features over to subscription vs. a one time upfront purchase (they're already trying it with LTE access).

While I would perhaps feel better if I knew there was a hw difference, I'm very happy with the additional capabilities of the P3D- and would likely do it again if it was definitively known to be just a sw unlock. The only scenario that would really tick me off is if indeed there is supposed to be a hw difference, and Tesla ended up reconfiguring AWD models that weren't up to hw spec to make a EOQ number.

 

[djgarrett21]

I noticed you are driving the AWD version. This observation was not meant to be snooty but just trying to understand where you are coming from. I would have likely felt little better about making AWD purchase if I also found out that it might be just a pure software switch if I were in your position. Because it is definitely the better value proposition knowing that it could be software unlocked to better performance in the future without any compromise in the hardware if Tesla let it. That has some future value. So I do understand the position you take. But I would also feel really bad for the person who took the delivery of P3D- and realized later that it was set for AWD and then just switched last minute "hocus pocus" magically into P3D- with the same VIN number. Leaving that person wondering about having the right Monroney Window Stickers correctly reflecting his actual vehicle and worth, as proof in the future for possible resale. Nevermind wondering about is it correctly spec'ed in the hardware department to correctly handle the upgraded software. I think I would have worried as well as if some type of scam is going on. Only because Tesla itself has caused this confusion and has not officially cleared this matter. Of course, if I ordered an AWD and somehow got the performance upgraded software already installed free, I would like "yea awesome", just human nature. Thankfully I go P3D+ variant so it was easily discernable even physically from the AWD version and even some differences in the hardware such as better tires and brakes and possible suspension changes that clearly differentiates from the AWD version although paying extra for it. That was another reason why I did pay for the + including the possibility of track capable out of the gate with future track mode. Although I also did not receive any Monroney window sticker because it was promptly removed predelivery so am not sure what it stated. I thought it was by law that they have to provide it to you during the purchase process stated by some other forum member. Do I need to formally ask for it? Does anyone know if this is necessary for a resale? Is MVPA not enough evidence for the insurance company or the buyer?

No offense taken. Not trying to downplay the OPs situation or concern about not getting the correct vehicle.

It has always seemed clear to me that the P upgrade is software so my surprise comes when others assume it is hardware. The value is added by the enhanced performance, P owners have paid for that so they get it regardless of how it is achieved.

 

[Knightshade]

I hear you but that is not what it says.

Yes, and it's wrong.

Hardly the first time the manual had wrong info left in for months at a time.

There's no physical difference between the AWD and P (or RWD) brakes.

The only brake change comes with the $5000 Performance Upgrade you can add to the P.

This is made clear during the actual ordering process too.

if what you say is correct, what are you paying 9K more for- one second faster and 10 mph more? Are there any other improvements to warrant the price increase?

You're paying as far as anyone can tell for a software unlock that makes the car quicker and faster. That's it.

That said- go find me another car that drops from 4.5 to 3.5 0-60 for "only" 9k in factory options- hardware or software