So the Roadster didn't help drive EV adoption? I think you're trying to rewrite history... we are here today because the Roadster is a desirable sports car.
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If you were not getting a Model S what would you get
- Thread starter gg_got_a_tesla
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It did, I'm not arguing the Roadster didn't push things forward but it still is a very expensive, tiny and not really practical sports car for a very small segment of the population. I meant selling their powertrain components to other companies hasn't resulted in any major company EV release (yet) in the premium Sedan segment. I'm not counting the Leaf but Tesla did probably inspire them. Where is the BMW 3 series using Tesla technology? The Mercedes E class...etc? If it weren't for Tesla building the Model S and delivering it starting June 22nd, there are many here who wouldn't be looking at another EV for at least 3-4 years until one of the majors steps up with a serious, premium EV sedan.
Are you arguing Tesla should just innovate within the Roadster/2+2 sports car segment, sell their powertrain components and leave their company at that? I have great respect for you and the work you are doing in the EV space but am not sure why you are arguing Tesla should not try and grow bigger as an automaker (sell more cars to more people meaning a more affordable, practical car to appeals to more people).
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Yes.... and if they had they would today have a 300+ mile range Roadster on the road, a high quality 2+2, and several more world records under their belt. Obviously, many on this forum are Model S/X fan boys but outside of the US I hear a lot more disquiet about the path Tesla are following...
They will have those again in a few years. I don't want Tesla to get into the sub $20,000 segment anytime soon but staying at a premium level I think is smart while still trying to drive cost down and make a car affordable to more people. Anyway, the US is a major car market as well and the Model S should do well here.
...wow. I'm not sure wanting the company to grow and succeed and help push EVs forward makes a fanboy. But, I think this conversation has just entered WTF territory, and I'm not sure how to proceed. Again, very surprised by this line of reasoning from someone promoting a zero carbon world in their sig. Not sure how we get there if the top players focus on making expensive sports cars for the minority.
My comment is because Tesla does not build IC engines, and I'm glad they don't. The e-GT looks like a fine car, for those who want that. I like the Teslas better. Gasoline is a niche Tesla has chosen not to enter, even as an option.
Tesla's announced reason for existing, their stated purpose, is to build and sell an affordable EV for the masses. The Roadster was nothing but a way to get their foot in the door of an industry where a start-up can build and sell a high-performance sports car, but not a high-volume car. Many years ago, Tesla announced it would build a limited-production electric sports car, then a high-end sporty sedan, and eventually an affordable family sedan.
To have stayed with the Roadster would have been to abandon their promise to their original investors. Elon Musk is a visionary. He built a truly wonderful and remarkable sports car in order to showcase the technology and to demonstrate that an EV need not be a golf cart. But it was a stepping stone to a much broader market, not an end in itself. Musk wants to change the world, and you don't do that by building nothing but $108,000 sports cars.
The Furtive fills a market niche. But it is not Tesla's niche, and would not be true to Tesla's vision. Somebody who likes the Furtive more than the Tesla, can buy the Furtive. Tesla doesn't need to do what another company is doing.
Renault have already sold 15,637 Kangoo's to La Poste and other French government institutions. The ZOE will be the first mass-market EV with an on the road price £13,650 in the UK (including tax). IMO the Model S is a luxury product which will have limited impact on CO2 emissions in Europe.
The thread author asked the question what I would buy if not a Model S.... I answered that question because I believe the technology is more important than the Model S/X.
You are missing the point... the Furtive-eGT is a beautiful car which I gave as an example of what Tesla could have built if they'd stayed in the sports car arena. I'm not suggesting that Tesla should have built a hybrid but rather they should have delivered a 400+ mile range 2+2 because I believe a lot of people would buy it. You also need to see the build quality of the Furtive-eGT or a top end Audi to understand what Tesla are up against.
Of course any minor player in the market (definitely Tesla even at 20,000 units a year) will have a minor impact on CO2 emissions. It's what they represent that matters. First, as you said, that an electric car doesn't have to be boring or slow (Roadster). Next will be you can have a luxury/premium sedan and have an EV without much in the way of compromises. Many people, at least in the US, are looking for a luxury sedan and will not look at an EV with the limited range and size of the Leaf, Ford Focus or anything else coming out as a mass market EV for the next 3 years at least. They would simply go buy a gas BMW, Mercedes, Audi or maybe Porsche and not look twice an an EV if the Model S didn't exist.
I'm sure they will do this but to succeed, they need to grow as a company and that means sell something other than an expensive sports car for now. They will go back to the Roadster soon I hope. There are even rumors of Tesla giving us exactly what you asked for with a optional battery upgrade to the current Roadsters with Model S cells. We'll see on that though.
I think you are confusing cultures here. While the Zoe may be an attractive deal to Europeans, it would get you laughed at in the US if you talked about it like the second coming. Americans like big powerful cars, especially when they cost more than ICe counterparts. What Tesla is doing is brilliant. Selling a sexy, powerful car that happens to be an EV, will get you noticed here.
The Prius started below $20k US when it debuted. It also had more than a 100 mile range with easy 5 minute fill ups. Not to mention, you won't be spending $100 a month for a battery lease on top of the almost $30k price. Let's face it, the Zoe is a small city commuter car, whether anyone likes it or not.
To keep this on Topic, I would never ever buy a Zoe if it came here. I would just keep driving the same car I am now.
TRON
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If there would be no car but the Tesla Roadster, I would buy a Renault Kangoo electric for transporting things in the city.
What gives you the impression that they are no longer in the "sports car arena"!? Doesn't 0-60 in under 4.4 seconds make the Tesla S competetive with most "Sport Cars " out there.!? I own a "top end Audi" and I can't remember the last time I drove it more than 200+ miles in a stretch, never mind 480km..!? The build quality of the Model S is 2nd to none, have you even seen a Model S "in the Flesh"...!? The only obstacle that Tesla is up against are pessimists like yourself... do you get the point....!?
While I disagree with Kevin on most things he's said in this thread, I will concede that the build quality seen in the cars so far has not been as good as the Audis I've owned -- granted, I haven't sat in a final, production vehicle either. I'll be honest though, it's one thing that concerns me as I've never felt that American car companies got this right compared to the Germans.
Clearly our definition of sports cars are different.
As always generalisations are dangerous but I believe that many people will want to drive more than 200 miles after a short break (and I don't buy the notion that Europe will be covered with convenient Tesla fast chargers).
Yes, in Geneva and it was lousy... several Roadster owners said the same thing and decided there and then not to proceed with a purchase of the Model S.
I've driven 31,000 miles in my Roadster in just under 2 years. I spend a great deal of my time and money promoting electric cars and Tesla in particular. I'm interested in wholesale transition to electric cars powered by renewables and while Tesla are a part of that we need mainstream car manufacturers because they are interested in real volumes. IMO selling the mainstream players ground breaking technology is the way to do that.
I've said many times that I wish Tesla had produced a 300+ mile Roadster and a best in class 2+2 with a 400+ mile range. I think that both of those would have been delivered quickly and driven forward the notion that electric sports cars are the pinnacle of technology. If you want a very simple comparison then look at the way that top riders clamoured for a seat in this years TT-Zero.
The problem with a forum like TMC is that objective criticism of Tesla is difficult and many people who I know hold similar views will not put their head above the parapet.... if you want a real understanding of the European reaction to the Model S then talk to Roadster owners (the majority of whom are not members of any forum).... if you think the Model X will sell well here then you clearly have no understanding of the European market.
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