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Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]
- Thread starter HMARTINPT
- Start date
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
You have a strange idea of what makes real evidence. I have seen no evidence that the battery is failing (beyond slow and relatively normal degradation which is obviously not covered under the warranty). In fact, early in this thread the OP posted that Tesla has told him the way he drives the car might be responsible for some of the degradation (please excuse the shouting but I'm quoting verbatim
):Note that he says the degradation has been going on for years. In other words, no, I don't see any evidence of an issue that would be covered by the warranty which is very clear about the exclusion of degradation. Unless and until the OP's battery actually develops a failure that is not degradation, this entire thread is an excercise in someone trying to get something of value that he is not entitled to for free. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean they are entitled to it.
Bet TSLA
Active Member
And just to circle back to this for the record.... Motor replacements are no big deal on Teslas. Replacing a drive train is a simple procedure, completely unlike an ICE engine replacement. Tesla does this regularly simply for diagnostic purposes (as in, let's see if replacing the drive train makes things better). They send what they took out back to Fremont for full analysis and refurbishment, after which it goes to some new owner. Year after year the drive train has been improved and old ones have been brought up to spec and put back in other cars.
So, really, there is nothing whatsoever that can be inferred from "two motor replacements". This is a battery thing.
If Tesla has any sense they would put a loaner battery pack in this car and see how it behave over a few weeks. And they'd do a full analysis of the OP's pack. There's probably something wrong, and they can probably figure out what it is.
gilscales
Banned
did you happen to confirm if anything is wrong with your charger cable or house power source?
Yes the car had degraded from 260 to 212 over the past 5 years. In the past week it has gone from 212 to 190 when trip charging to 100%. That is a loss of 9% battery capacity in less than a week. I will have to be circular again because I thought we both agreed in above threads that degradation is the slow deterioration of the battery.You have a strange idea of what makes real evidence. I have seen no evidence that the battery is failing (beyond slow and relatively normal degradation which is obviously not covered under the warranty). In fact, early in this thread the OP posted that Tesla has told him the way he drives the car might be responsible for some of the degradation (please excuse the shouting but I'm quoting verbatim
Note that he says the degradation has been going on for years. In other words, no, I don't see any evidence of an issue that would be covered by the warranty which is very clear about the exclusion of degradation. Unless and until the OP's battery actually develops a failure that is not degradation, this entire thread is an excercise in someone trying to get something of value that he is not entitled to for free. Just because someone wants something doesn't mean they are entitled to it.
I will reiterate that the car stopped with 16 miles on the range indicator with a 0% battery per Tesla. Also the car had a sudden loss of battery capacity which should have gotten 171.2 miles given all the driving conditions on the trip and the car shut down at 139 miles. That is a greater than 10% sudden battery capacity loss. Tesla has replaced batteries in the past for both of those reasons "under warranty"
I am sorry to be redundant but you obviously want to say all of the above is degradation even though it states no where under Tesla's warranty that this is degradation. There are actually multiple articles(ie tesloop) stating the above problems have been covered under warranty.
Once again I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it. Thanks again for letting me get the word out there.
He is now getting an unable to charge error and has lost 24 miles off the top in a matter of days. That looks like the symptoms of a failing HV battery.
Unfortunately, Tesla is really giving him the runaround until it fails for good.
Bet TSLA
Active Member
Or the charging system failing. Either the part in his car or the part in his house, or the cable. He should really try supercharging to full at this point to see what that results in. If that gets only to the same rated range then the problem is probably his battery.
I believe you said you have multiple Tesla cars. Do the other Tesla cars charge fine using the same electrical line (ie, 14-50 outlet or HPWC curcuit) and UMC or HPWC that does not work with the car giving the error message? If they do, I would think the problem is not with your “charger” or electrical line.
Also, have you tried to charge using the UMC from one of the other cars?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Tesla says it's the EVSE. They know more than you or I do.
That's an odd way to phrase it considering that Tesla has a strong history of honoring their warranty. Especially when you consider they are privy to much more detailed and accurate info than this thread contains.
My experience with service centers is they rarely bother to actually escalate something to engineering and will just give you the answer that is easiest without doing the extra research. Having been given the runaround by an SC several times myself, I don’t trust that they have actually done the full diagnostics and sent the info back to the home base.
And Tesla has really, really poor customer service, so I don’t know why you think they would be above giving someone the run-around on a warranty claim if they can get out of it. Just like every other auto manufacturer out there. Tesla isn’t really proving themselves to be better.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
What? Even the OP admits that Tesla has a long history of providing liberal warranty replacement, free of charge.
He is just miffed because they aren't doing so in his case!
I never stated that Tesla has a long history of providing "liberal" warranty replacement. I actually have a laundry list of items that have been fixed "out of pocket" or still need to be fixed but isn't a safety issue with the car. All of those items/problems aren't under the warranty; therefore, I don't expect Tesla to fix them.
You keep stating that I want others to believe that I want something that is not owed and trying to put a play on words like "Tesla has a long history of providing liberal warranty replacement, free of charge". I want Tesla to honor "8 year/infinite mile warranty on the battery and drive train." I am still waiting to hear from you and Tesla what the definition of degradation is because it is obviously more than the slow deterioration of the battery. If Tesla wants to include a sudden loss of battery capacity or range indicator malfunction in with degradation they should put that in writing. Better yet they shouldn't site fixing those problems "under warranty" They should recant what they have previously stated so others aren't mislead.
Once again I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it. Thanks again for letting me get the word out there.
No, he is miffed because he thinks he has a failing battery on top of the normal degradation, but can’t get Tesla to address it. It can be very, very frustrating to be in that situation.
I went through the same scenario with another Tesla division recently (Energy). Had a problem I could see in my data, but they insisted it was “normal”. I spent months going back and forth with them and couldn’t even get them to come out and look, they would only use their online diagnostics. I posted on the forums here and was also told it was “normal”. I ended up having to wait until the problem became so bad Tesla was going to have to pay me at the end of the year, THEN they finally escalated it to engineering. Who immediately saw the issue and a week later I had a guy at my house fixing a part that had been wired wrong during initial installation 6 months prior. Missing out on my prime production months, but whatever. I was so frustrated during the process that I was only one call away from hiring a different company to service my system and throwing my 20 year Tesla warranty in the trash because that was all it seemed to be worth. (Side note: never buy solar from Tesla)
So, sure, that was my experience with a different division of the company and not relevant to this situation, but having been in that position before (everyone telling you you are wrong when you are actually right), I tend to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that they know their own car and when their car is exhibiting an issue.
You feel the OP is just trying to get a freebie out of Tesla, which I am sure is also based on your past experiences, so a different but also relevant perspective.
In the end, neither of us knows the true situation, so we will just have to see how it plays out for the OP.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
One thing is obvious. You have a different definition of "degradation" than I do (or Tesla).
That is the crux of the "problem". The obvious remedy, at least from your perspective, is to document everything and sue Tesla. But I would be very surprised if you win and wouldn't recommend that course of action. Because you yourself admitted this "problem" has been progressing for "years".
You keep talking about this "unlimited miles" warranty but that is really no different than the ubiquitous "Lifetime Warranty". However, "Lifetime Warranties" only cover defects in materials and workmanship, not gradual wearing out. If your Carhart jeans have a "Lifetime Warranty" and you wear them as a mason, they might only last a couple of years. But when they wear out, you don't get a free pair. No manufacturer could stay in business if their "Lifetime Warranty" didn't have exclusions. The Tesla warranty is no different. Given the circumstances and conditions the car was operated in, you should be grateful the battery lasted longer than most ICE cars.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Oh, I have no doubt the OP's car is exhibiting an issue, the difference of opinion is whether it's a defect of materials/manufacturing or simply battery degradation.
I completely agree with that. Tesla obviously knows more about the OP's specific battery, usage habits, temperatures, etc. than any of us and they have a history of being very good at honoring their warranties without a mean, nasty drawn out fight. That's why I've tentatively given the benefit of the doubt to Tesla in this instance. Actually, even just going by what the OP has provided, it sounds more like long-term, high mileage battery degradation than a manufacturing flaw. But we don't know for sure. Tesla does (or should).
However it turns out, I trust Tesla to do the right thing. Just know that the "right thing" is not necessarily a brand new battery pack. And I still maintain that previous goodwill replacements for cars that had heavy service don't obligate Tesla to continue to offer goodwill replacements for battery degradation. They are free to use their own judgement on a case/case basis. It's in their best interest to be fair about this, otherwise it will end up in arbitration or court. If I were the OP, I wouldn't like my chances there, given the info he has shared.
gilscales
Banned
Per Tesla Warranty
- The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage is NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty, except to the extent specified in this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty. See your owner documentation for important information on how to maximize the life and capacity of the Battery, failure to follow these recommended battery maintenance and charging procedures shall void this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty.
Most of the OP's battery degradation was gradual but not the recent 10% or so, at least as reported by the OP.
It would appear to me that your definition of degradation does differ from Tesla's per their own warranty documents.
There you go again putting a play on words. I haven't said once that I was going to sue Tesla. Although any lawyer would jump at this case in a heart beat and I am positive Tesla wouldn't want it to go to trial. They could be on the hook for all of these cars in the future that are having the same problems as mine with a judgement against them if it goes to trial. Tesla should definitively define degradation. I am sure they wouldn't want a jury to decide that for them.
As previously stated in thread #282, "I have decided to go on the advice of many on this thread to just keep on driving the vehicle until the battery leaves me stranded again. I have about two and half years on the 8 year/infinite mile warranty and have broke down(requiring towing) on average about once a year due to the drive train or battery so I am sure I will be back to the service center if history repeats itself. "
Please stop trying to put a play on words to make your argument sound better. Once again I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it. Thanks again for letting me get the word out there.
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