gilscales
Banned
Please change the word tentatively to blatantly to correct your sentence as after all you have stated previously that "words have meaning" and you obviously have no doubt in this unresolved matter who is at fault or to blame.
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Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]
- Thread starter HMARTINPT
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
No, I think over a 6 year period that qualifies as a gradual decline, especially considering the OP was racking up 40,000 miles per year. "Gradual" doesn't need to be perfectly steady, it will come in increments of different speeds depending upon usage and charging paterns. What makes it "gradual" is that it decreases in graduations over time, not all at once.
Also, the estimation of battery capacity as done by the BMS is not perfect. Some reports of less range can simply be due to innaccuracies in the BMS estimation of useable capacity. The relevant thing here is that the actual, usable capacity has been gradually declining for years, even if the BMS system isn't perfectly accurate everytime it makes an estimate. Depending upon usage and charge levels, it might report a decline in battery capacity that hapened over the previous two months, all at once.
For example, a car might go two months of being charged to 80% and report a range of exactly xyz miles every time. Then it might be drained to near zero (or charged to 100%) which might give it the data points it needs to realize the range is now 15 miles less. That doesn't mean the range suddenly dropped 15 miles overnight, it means the BMS system finally compiled enough new data to make a new estimation.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
All of my opinions of whether there is evidence of a warranty repair are based on current knowledge as relayed by the OP.
Obviously, the battery could still develop a fault covered by warranty at a later date. Or Tesla could discover new information. By "tentatively", I simply mean "given the current information". This should be obvious.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
You misunderstood me (and I see how that could happen given the way I worded it).
What I meant was that you disagree with Tesla's position that it is battery degradation. All I'm saying is that, given your strong belief, the obvious remedy from your perspective is to sue Tesla (or use arbitration). I did not intend to imply that you said you were going to sue Tesla and I think if you re-read what I wrote you will see that.
SilverSp33d3r
No Longer Silver
Notice what this says after your bolded text.
“From useage of battery is not covered”. The OP has only one leg to stand on and that is the fact the car shut down at 16 miles remaining.
In both cases it appears Tesla stated that the reason the car shut down is due to the OP useage of the vehicle (high energy consumption etc.).
It appears that the OP also charges to 100% regularly despite repeated warnings from the car which clearly is outlined in the warranty and owners manual.
Guy V
Member
No, it's more than one leg even though the evidence presented is still inconclusive. He still has reported a fast decline (over days, not months) from 212 to 200 to 176 maximum charge. If that trend continues or accelerates it clearly becomes a case of failure, catastrophic not gradual degradation.
There has been impressive discussion here on battery chemistry and performance that leads on observer to expect that soon a detailed internal examination and analysis of the battery pack ought to show Tesla what is failing in there. They also should have records to show whether something they determine to be "abuse" may have occurred. If so, I think we all would like to know what they would consider that to be.
I very much want to see where this leads, and very much hope it is something that can be resolved without arbitration or litigation. Please keep sharing.
I only charge to 100% when I have to take a trip besides this past week when I was trying to see how much battery capacity was lost since I picked it up at Tesla. A loss from 212 to 190 which is a 9% loss in less than a week. I haven't tripped charged it again since then but am curious to see what it is now. Just FYI, I normally charge to 90% or less for the past 5 years.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I agree the evidence as presented so far is inconclusive. And that's putting it mildly because I haven't seen anything that leads me to think it's anything but gradual degradation. I'm not convinced the "fast decline" is one of storage loss, it could simply be the result of more accurate calibration algrithms loaded by Tesla to solve his issue of shutting down with 16 miles of estimated range left. And that makes the most sense because if it shut down while still reporting 16 miles of range left, we can assume the energy remaining estimation was at fault, not that the shut down was premature. It's well known that it's even trickier to estimate the stored energy when the battery has as much degradation as the OP's does. That's probably why Tesla had to adjust the software that makes those estimates. It's not like they have a mechanical float level in a gas tank - it's a lot more complex than that.
I also agree I would like more info from Tesla because without more evidence supporting a flaw with the battery other than degradation, the title of this thread is potentially libelous. Because it doesn't say Tesla is refusing to apply their warranty in the manner in which the OP would find agreeable, it says Tesla is refusing to honor their warranty. The only way that's not libelous is if the OP's battery contains a flaw that is not simply degradation over time and miles based on the OP's charging/use habits. If it's simply degradation, and I think it is, I think the OP should be thankful that Tesla is not more vindictive
I also agree I would like more info from Tesla because without more evidence supporting a flaw with the battery other than degradation, the title of this thread is potentially libelous. Because it doesn't say Tesla is refusing to apply their warranty in the manner in which the OP would find agreeable, it says Tesla is refusing to honor their warranty. The only way that's not libelous is if the OP's battery contains a flaw that is not simply degradation over time and miles based on the OP's charging/use habits. If it's simply degradation, and I think it is, I think the OP should be thankful that Tesla is not more vindictive
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Maybe if you moved to the Texas heat and used it identically to the OP, then you could expect similar results. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about it.
Oh, and I'll add, the Model 3 has a much improved battery cooling system and a more advanced battery chemistry. With the Model 3 I would say go ahead and move to the Texas heat and Supercharge it like you stole it.
Once again, the title is based on what Tesla has described as being covered "under warranty" for both the range indicator malfunction and the sudden loss of battery capacity. Please read the Tesloop article in regards to what Tesla said was covered "under warranty" There has also been multiple other owners that have had their batteries replaced according to this thread as well.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
No, it's based on YOUR interpretation of that. I disagree with your interpretation and apparently, so does Tesla.
For the tenth time, previous generosity does not create a legal obligation to continue the generosity.
Then for the 11th time, Tesla should report that they covered it under generosity and not document that it was covered "under warranty". Please read the Tesloop article so maybe you can understand. Once again I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it. Thanks again for letting me get the word out there.
No, according to most on this thread and myself I feel that the majority of Tesla's vehicles don't experience this type of degradation. Although my point is what Tesla wants to categorize degradation as more than "just the slow deterioration of the battery" (ie range indicator malfunction and sudden loss of battery capacity). My family and I love Tesla and how we have been treated in the past. We hope that we can work this out so Tesla's can be our last car as well. It depends on what Tesla does in the future about resale. I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry I have to tell you this but a goodwill warranty replacement is just what it sounds like. They are covering it under the warranty even though the warranty may not apply.
It's not an article, it's a blog post. And I do understand. There are all kinds of innacurate statements on the Tesloop blog and Tesla is not legally obligated to correct them. Because Tesla didn't write the blog posts. Always refer directly to the terms of your warranty agreement.
Tesla is not shy about covering marginal cases under warranty so I'm guessing there is something about your charging/usage history that threw up the red flags for them. This blog post is about a Tesloop Model S that went 300,000 grueling miles with almost no maintenance or repairs:
Tesla Model S Hits 300,000 Miles with less than $11,000 maintenance costs
I am referring to the article(Tesla Battery Life Longer than Anyone(Except Elon & JB) Expected) by the author of Steve Hanley.
Tesla Battery Life Longer Than Anyone (Except Elon & JB) Expected | CleanTechnica
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
This is getting old. Tesla didn't write that Clean Technica article either. The article does say both batteries were replaced "under warranty" but that does not mean they were not done under goodwill warranty replacement. What exactly does that article show that is relevant to your current disagreement with Tesla's diagnosis?
The article states the battery was replaced under warranty due to inaccurate range estimates. The exact same as what my car experienced last month. Once again I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it. Thanks again for letting me get the word out there.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Yes, what of it? It was a completely different situation:
"Before a firmware update that fixed this issue the vehicle’s range estimator became inaccurate. The estimator would decrease 10 miles even though the vehicle didn’t actually lose range. Upon inspection Tesla found there to be a battery chemistry issue that the software wasn’t calculating correctly prompting the service center to change the high voltage battery for safety and to study. 3 months later a firmware update was released, which had it been released 3 months earlier, Tesloop would not have had to change the battery."
That doesn't support your position that you are owed a free battery pack AT ALL. Even if it were remotely similar to your situation, a goodwill warranty replacement does not legally obligate Tesla to replace all packs with the same symptoms as yours. How many times do we need to go over this. The article you mentioned does not support your position.
It looks like the recent range loss you experienced was simply Tesla fixing the software that calculated range on degraded batteries.
Seven7
Member
No, I don't think you have anything to worry about. The battery under discussion is a 2012 with over 230k miles and it still charges up to about 200 miles of range.
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