Infinite Mile Battery Warranty [Now] Being Honored By Tesla [Issue Resolved]

[mongo]

I only charge to 100% when I have to take a trip besides this past week when I was trying to see how much battery capacity was lost since I picked it up at Tesla. A loss from 212 to 190 which is a 9% loss in less than a week. I haven't tripped charged it again since then but am curious to see what it is now. Just FYI, I normally charge to 90% or less for the past 5 years.

Beyond the recent trip when it cut out at 139 miles, what were the longest trips and kWh usage before that? And to confirm, what was the SOC at the start of that trip (and the others). This data will help determine the actual pack capacity, otherwise the only metric is the estimated range which could be underestimating the true degredation.

(Apologies if this data is present in the preceding 20+ pages)

 

[HMARTINPT]

Beyond the recent trip when it cut out at 139 miles, what were the longest trips and kWh usage before that? And to confirm, what was the SOC at the start of that trip (and the others). This data will help determine the actual pack capacity, otherwise the only metric is the estimated range which could be underestimating the true degredation.

(Apologies if this data is present in the preceding 20+ pages)

I had taken the exact same trip 3 months earlier and had the same driving conditions. We got to our destination with 175 miles on the trip with about 10 miles left on the range. Sorry but I am unable to confirm the kWh at that time. The SOC was 209 and the car stopped at 139 during the same trip last month. Thanks for the input.

 

[HMARTINPT]

Yes, what of it? It was a completely different situation:

"Before a firmware update that fixed this issue the vehicle’s range estimator became inaccurate. The estimator would decrease 10 miles even though the vehicle didn’t actually lose range. Upon inspection Tesla found there to be a battery chemistry issue that the software wasn’t calculating correctly prompting the service center to change the high voltage battery for safety and to study. 3 months later a firmware update was released, which had it been released 3 months earlier, Tesloop would not have had to change the battery."

That doesn't support your position that you are owed a free battery pack AT ALL. Even if it were remotely similar to your situation, a goodwill warranty replacement does not legally obligate Tesla to replace all packs with the same symptoms as yours. How many times do we need to go over this. The article you mentioned does not support your position.

It looks like the recent range loss you experienced was simply Tesla fixing the software that calculated range on degraded batteries.

Tesla stated they fixed the calibration and range to 212 with a 100% charge. So at that time the battery should have been calibrated. They had it in for a week trying to fix that issue. Not even a week later I am at 190 with a 100% charge. That is a 9% battery capacity loss in less than a week. By the way others have stated that batteries have been replaced just for that reason(sudden loss of battery capacity). I feel that we are just going around in circles so hopefully we can just agree to disagree. Once again I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it. Thanks again for letting me get the word out there.

 

[Seven7]

I had taken the exact same trip 3 months earlier and had the same driving conditions. We got to our destination with 175 miles on the trip with about 10 miles left on the range. Sorry but I am unable to confirm the kWh at that time. The SOC was 209 when the car stopped at 139 during the same trip last month. Thanks for the input.

I want to make sure I understand this correctly, you started this trip with charge showing 209 miles, and after driving for 139 miles your car showed 16 miles left and shut off. Is this correct? @HMARTINPT

 

[HMARTINPT]

I want to make sure I understand this correctly, you started this trip with charge showing 209 miles, and after driving for 139 miles your car showed 16 miles left and shut off. Is this correct? @HMARTINPT

yes

 

[fbitz777]

This thread is going on and on, why? 139 miles is not necessarily bad (I sometimes get less than that in the cold)

Can't the OP just DRIVE the car and give feedback on where things are heading instead?

 

[HMARTINPT]

This thread is going on and on, why? 139 miles is not necessarily bad (I sometimes get less than that in the cold)

Can't the OP just DRIVE the car and give feedback on where things are heading instead?

Tesla even took the car into service because it only did a 139 miles when it should have gotten 171 miles that included all interior and exterior driving factors. I plan on giving feedback on where things are headed but do reply to those that make comments like yours above.

 

[fbitz777]

Tesla even took the car into service because it only did a 139 miles when it should have gotten 171 miles that included all interior and exterior driving factors. I plan on giving feedback on where things are headed but do reply to those that make comments like yours above.

Then your best bet is that things will degrade fast from now on and you prove Tesla and most of us wrong. How many miles have you driven since you posted?

 

[gilscales]

OP also charges to 100% regularly despite repeated warnings from the car which clearly is outlined in the warranty and owners manual.

Please point out where he posted this as I must have missed it, I did read where OP mentions that he does not charge to 100% often.

 

[SilverSp33d3r]

Please point out where he posted this as I must have missed it, I did read where OP mentions that he does not charge to 100% often.

You are correct however; If he’s not charging to 100% often then how does he know that the car has only xxx amount at 100%? He’s been updating almost daily with these numbers?

Also if tesla is claiming the degradation is due to his “useage” then there must be a reason.

 

[gilscales]

You are correct however; If he’s not charging to 100% often then how does he know that the car has only xxx amount at 100%? He’s been updating almost daily with these numbers?

Also if tesla is claiming the degradation is due to his “usage” then there must be a reason.

I believe he stated that he charged to 100% twice since his "re-calibration" from Tesla, I would have done the same to test the max range which by the way keeps falling substantially after every charge so a bit more than gradual degradation I would say.

 

[dgatwood]

For example, a car might go two months of being charged to 80% and report a range of exactly xyz miles every time. Then it might be drained to near zero (or charged to 100%) which might give it the data points it needs to realize the range is now 15 miles less. That doesn't mean the range suddenly dropped 15 miles overnight, it means the BMS system finally compiled enough new data to make a new estimation.

The problem with that theory is that the owner of the vehicle just got the vehicle back from Tesla, who repeatedly did deep charge/discharge cycles precisely so that the battery management system could recalibrate itself. And after that, it still dropped by double-digit miles in a week.

Also if tesla is claiming the degradation is due to his “useage” then there must be a reason.

As far as I'm aware, Tesla maintains data from its car for only a short period of time (O(weeks)). So there's no way Tesla can actually say with any certainty whether the user's behavior actually caused excessive degradation. I suspect that their default answer is to blame the user when a vehicle performs significantly outside of normal parameters, at least until the battery is proven to actually have something substantively wrong with it.

 

[StealthP3D]

The problem with that theory is that the owner of the vehicle just got the vehicle back from Tesla, who repeatedly did deep charge/discharge cycles precisely so that the battery management system could recalibrate itself. And after that, it still dropped by double-digit miles in a week.

Actually, I think they used the data from the deep discharge/charge cycles to develop calibration parameters in the software as well. That could take time to show up in the estimated range estimates. In any case, I would expect the estimates of battery capacity to have a certain amount of granularity to them. Just because it jumps in stages doesn't mean the loss of capacity isn't gradual degradation. Measuring battery capacity is an inexact science due to the electro-chemical nature of the batteries.

As far as I'm aware, Tesla maintains data from its car for only a short period of time (O(weeks)). So there's no way Tesla can actually say with any certainty whether the user's behavior actually caused excessive degradation. I suspect that their default answer is to blame the user when a vehicle performs significantly outside of normal parameters, at least until the battery is proven to actually have something substantively wrong with it.

I disagree. Data storage is insanely cheap these days. It would be foolhardy to NOT keep pertinent battery information for the life of the car. Please support your contention that Tesla routinely discards that kind of critical battery info while the car is still in service.

Tesla's default behaviour when it comes to warranties is to err in favor of the customer. In this case it looks like they have data that supports NOT warranteeing the OP's battery. Maybe they will change their mind if there are new developments in the state of the battery but I think that is somewhat unlikely.

 

[HMARTINPT]

You are correct however; If he’s not charging to 100% often then how does he know that the car has only xxx amount at 100%? He’s been updating almost daily with these numbers?

Also if tesla is claiming the degradation is due to his “useage” then there must be a reason.

Gilscales is correct. I have tripped charged twice since picking the vehicle up. You are incorrect about me updating daily with a 100% trip charge. I have had to post multiple times because people haven’t read the thread and don’t understand the entire story.

 

[HMARTINPT]

I know! That's 27 pages too long. This is the only example of a Tesla owner who disagreed with Tesla on whether or not something is a warranty item and then created a 28 page thread! The only example of that. It's basically a 1 page thread that goes in circles 27 times!

I wouldn't have to respond as much if people wouldn't keep siting inaccurate information. By the way, davewill was referring to the CAPS being addressed on page 1. Not complaining about the length of the thread. Thanks again to all of you that have provided helpful information with your posts!!

 

[StealthP3D]

I wouldn't have to respond as much if people wouldn't keep siting inaccurate information. By the way, davewill was referring to the CAPS being addressed on page 1. Not complaining about the length of the thread.

Since Tesla has denied your warranty claim, it seems you have three choices:

1) Take your case to the arbitors of warranty disputes.
2) Admit that Tesla is right.
3) Continue to repeat yourself as to why you think Tesla is dishonorable in terms of their warranty commitments.

At this point it doesn't make sense to hang your hat on #3 when you have #1 at your disposal. And it's unclear why you don't go into arbitration since you believe so strongly that Tesla is being dishonorable here (as the thread title claims). If your interpretation is correct, and you have the facts to back it up (as you claim), and Tesla is dodging their legal warranty obligation, then you will easily win, right?

 

[HMARTINPT]

Since Tesla has denied your warranty claim, it seems you have three choices:

1) Take your case to the arbitors of warranty disputes.
2) Admit that Tesla is right.
3) Continue to repeat yourself as to why you think Tesla is dishonorable in terms of their warranty commitments.

At this point it doesn't make sense to hang your hat on #3 when you have #1 at your disposal. And it's unclear why you don't go into arbitration since you believe so strongly that Tesla is being dishonorable here (as the thread title claims). If your interpretation is correct, and you have the facts to back it up (as you claim), and Tesla is dodging their legal warranty obligation, then you will easily win, right?

Actually I plan on going with option #4 as previously stated in thread #521.
"I have decided to go on the advice of many on this thread to just keep on driving the vehicle until the battery leaves me stranded again. I have about two and half years on the 8 year/infinite mile warranty and have broke down(requiring towing) on average about once a year due to the drive train or battery so I am sure I will be back to the service center if history repeats itself."

I appreciate those who have tried to give helpful advice and will continue to defend my post for those that continue to write inaccurate information.

Once again I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it. I will have to say again that we will just have to agree to disagree. Thanks again for letting me get the word out there.

 

[StealthP3D]

Actually I plan on going with option #4 as previously stated in thread #521.
"I have decided to go on the advice of many on this thread to just keep on driving the vehicle until the battery leaves me stranded again.

Why would you want to get stranded again if you are legally owed a new battery now? That is what the warranty arbitration process is for - to judge disagreements between the manufacturer and the consumer (you). If you are right about Tesla being dishonorable, surely you will be awarded a new battery and avoid the inconvenience of your family being stranded again.

By not utilizing arbitration, essentially, you are choosing choice #3 and #2 (admitting that at this time Tesla's interpretation of degradation is the correct interpretation). Why not hold Tesla's feet to the fire and prove they are being dishonorable as you claim in the thread title?

 

[HMARTINPT]

Why would you want to get stranded again if you are legally owed a new battery now? That is what the warranty arbitration process is for - to judge disagreements between the manufacturer and the consumer (you). If you are right about Tesla being dishonorable, surely you will be awarded a new battery and avoid the inconvenience of your family being stranded again.

By not utilizing arbitration, essentially, you are choosing choice #3 and #2 (admitting that at this time Tesla's interpretation of degradation is the correct interpretation). Why not hold Tesla's feet to the fire and prove they are being dishonorable as you claim in the thread title?

Because I am confident that my car will continue to have battery issues and don't want to have to pay a lawyer 5,000 dollars if I don't have to. I am also confident that Tesla will end up doing the right thing. Once again, the real issue is a car that use to get 260 miles of range a little over 5 years ago is now getting a 139 miles with 16 miles left on the range indicator. I am just trying to let people know that as of now Tesla considers that degradation.
Once again I am just trying to let others know what I have been through and what Tesla has done about it. You keep on complaining about how long this thread is but keep on asking questions. Once again, I think we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks again for letting me get the word out there.

 

[StealthP3D]

Because I am confident that my car will continue to have battery issues and don't want to have to pay a lawyer 5,000 dollars if I don't have to. I am also confident that Tesla will end up doing the right thing.

If you believe Tesla is being dishonorable now (as per the thread title), why do you think they will all of a sudden become honorable?

Also, if Tesla is correct that what you have experienced is gradual battery degradation due to your driving/charging habits, why do you believe that it won't continue to gradually degrade but instead it will suddenly fail due to a defect in the materials or manufacturing?

For your information, warranty arbitration is designed to not require the use of a lawyer. It's designed be cheap and easy using a neutral third party to determine which party's viewpoint is best supported. Why not make use of the process that exists for your exact situation rather than continuing to do what you're doing, specifically bad-mouthing the honor of Tesla and hoping your battery develops a defect in materials or worksmanship?