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Interested in Utility Scale Renewables ? Delve into ERCOT

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by SageBrush, May 19, 2019.

  1. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    #81 nwdiver, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:13 AM
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021 at 9:08 AM
    Them free market folks got themselves in a bit of a pickle. Market said energy was $9/kWh. Now they're saying that was too high... well... do ya want a free market or don't cha?

    It's funny how this is being spun. ERCOT didn't 'do' anything. They stopped capping the price and let the market 'work'.
     
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  2. Needsdecaf

    Needsdecaf Member

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    That deferring maintenance at the expense of profit is an issue with electrical providers and distributors everywhere, in all kinds of markets. Certainly not just in TX.
     
  3. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    .... except that everywhere else winterization standards are't voluntary.
     
  4. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to be picking on Texas but they deserve all of the criticism. Other places have more regulations to prevent Texas sized disasters. Yes, sometimes the regulations don't work but Texas has earned this disaster in the name of "freedumb".
     
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  5. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    "Texas Watchdog Says Grid Operator Made $16 Billion Error" Texas Watchdog Says Grid Operator Made $16 Billion Error
    Amid the deep winter freeze that knocked nearly half of power generation offline, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, known as Ercot, set the price of electricity at the $9,000-a-megawatt-hour maximum -- standard practice during a grid emergency. But Ercot left that price in place days longer than necessary, resulting in massive overcharges, according to Potomac Economics, an independent market monitor hired by the state of Texas to assess Ercot’s performance.
     
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  6. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a bit of a stretch to call it an 'error'. That would be like saying the exchange that lists Gamestock 'errored' in allowing GME to surge. Maybe they should have replaced the $9k/MWh cap sooner but it was the market that was determining the price... it's that what Texans want? FREEEDDUUUMMMMBBBB!!!!!
     
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  7. David_Cary

    David_Cary Active Member

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    The whole thing is just a great example of how true unadulterated capitalism often fails us. It generally requires some basic regulation, especially when it comes to safety/extreme events, to be reasonable.
    What is nice to know is the the rest of the US isn't so shortsighted to allow this to happen. Sure, CA has its issues. But the other 48 states or so do just fine. Which now appears fairly remarkable.
    This is also a great case study in the perils of federalism. At some point, why should I pay for Texas' short sighted policies? The rate payers there maybe saved money over the last decade, it doesn't seem fair for any bailout from FEMA or whatever federal coffer money is taken from.
     
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  8. nwdiver

    nwdiver Well-Known Member

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    Bill Maher has made the wait time for his solar system a recurring part of his show. CA and TX should find a way to meet in the middle. Firm generation should probably keep working when it gets cold and you shouldn't need 17 AC disconnects for a battery backed PV system.....

    I got interconnect permission for a 30kW PV system in TX in ~3 weeks. I would probably be waiting on the 4th engineering review in May 2023 if this was CA....
     
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  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush REJECT Fascism

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    And they know that how, exactly ? It is not like the blackouts stopped LOL
     
  10. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    The rotating load shedding did stop. The high charges didn't
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush REJECT Fascism

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    reference ? As in, no blackouts anywhere ? That is not my recollection *at all*, but my memory may be wrong.
     
  12. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    RTFA!
    [​IMG]

    Rolling blackouts Mon, Tues, Wed. Grid stabilized and rolling load shedding stopped Thursday am but price didn't go down until Sunday.
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush REJECT Fascism

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    Yes, but my question remains unanswered: were there persistent black-outs in the state that were not 'rolling' ?

    This article from Thurs, Jan 16 quotes ERCOT as expecting restoration of power to take days.

    My understanding of ERCOT was that they upped the generator price cap as a market demand lever, but instituted rolling black-outs when the grid was in danger of collapse and damage. These are different problems and different ERCOT solutions; you should not treat them as the same.
     
  14. mspohr

    mspohr Well-Known Member

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    The load shedding blackouts ended Wednesday. There was persistent damage which caused some people to have longer power loss. These are two different things and you should not treat them as the same.
    The price rise was to remedy the capacity shortage which ended Wednesday and the price rise should have ended Wednesday.
     

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