It's the Batteries, Stupid!

[JRP3]

Plus a newer pack could be lighter, allowing better performance even at the same power levels.

 

[VolkerP]

How will an upgraded pack deliver quicker performance unless the power electronics were also upgraded?

This question is a good indication of the EV paradigm shift. In ICE, the motor is key to performance. In EV, it's the battery.
That shift manifests in the options & prices sheet
* Model S with 40kWh is comparable (in price & performance) to BMW 528i
* Model S with 85kWh is comparable to BMW 550i

 

[JRP3]

It's really both. The motor has to be capable of handling the battery power, as does the inverter, and the battery has to be capable of delivering all the power the motor and inverter can handle. If you regularly see your motor and inverter temps in the higher range under full power then it probably cannot handle much more battery pack power. The same is true of all the power wiring, it has to be sized to handle the current. I assume there is some headroom built into the system that would allow higher power levels, at least in short bursts.

 

[dpeilow]

BBC News - BAE provides details of 'structural battery' technology

 

[JRP3]

I recently found out there are two advanced battery materials companies within a few miles of me, NOHMS and Primet. Primet claims to have an innovative nano particle process that allows cheaper manufacturing of smaller and more consistent particles for battery materials.

 

[dpeilow]

PolyPlus named Edison Awards finalist on lithium batteries for 500+ mile electric cars

The PolyPlus lithium-water battery has achieved the highest recorded energy density of 1,300 Watt-hours/kilogram, or an almost 10x improvement over current lithium-ion batteries.

PolyPlus is currently testing samples of its lithium-water battery and expects the product to be commercially available in 2013.

In the near term PolyPlus says they'll first commercialize non-rechargeable lithium-air and lithium-water batteries, then work on commercializing rechargeable batteries later.

 

[JRP3]

At first I got excited, then I saw they are talking about primary cells, not rechargeable, big difference in technology.

In the near term PolyPlus says they'll first commercialize non-rechargeable lithium-air and lithium-water batteries, then work on commercializing rechargeable batteries later.

 

[dpeilow]

PolyPlus Technology

 

[AnOutsider]

Not sure if this is the right place but:

Battery cost dropping below $200 per kWh soon, says Teslas Elon Musk

Musk began his response by seeming to deny that figure represented the company's current cost but went on to say, "I do think that cost per kilowatt hour (kWh) at the cell level will decline below that, below $200, in the not-too-distant future."

So, how soon is the "not-too-distant future"? Perhaps 2015. That's the year Tesla is now aiming to begin production of its Gen 3 vehicle – what was historically code named "Blue Star."

Cheaper batteries, but more importantly(?): Another case of TMC's naming entering mainstream with the bluestar reference?

 

[Adm]

New Japanese battery plant slashes production costs

"Through mass production, we will soon lower production costs to a quarter" of what they were when the company first started making such batteries in 2009, said GS Yuasa President Makoto Yoda.

http://www.chargedevs.com/content/news-wire/post/new-japanese-battery-plant-slashes-production-costs

 

[dpeilow]

Envia Claims in Lithium-Ion Battery Cost and Energy Density - NYTimes.com

 

[stopcrazypp]

Envia Claims in Lithium-Ion Battery Cost and Energy Density - NYTimes.com

"400 watt-hours per kilogram at a cost of $150 per kilowatt-hour". That's a major breakthrough if true.

Compare that to 245Wh/kg for the NCR18650A and probably higher than $200/kWh (from Elon's recent comments).

 

[EVNow]

That does sound good - and not some vaporwhere either.

Envia is financed by the Energy Department and G.M. Ventures, the venture-capital arm of General Motors, as well as other investors.
...
Envia said its energy-density performance was verified in testing of prototype cells at the Naval Service Warfare Center’s Crane evaluation division.

 

[JRP3]

That's some wild stuff. If true I wonder if they will license the technology to other companies. If not this could be the end for some, assuming Envia has cycle life and power delivery to match.

 

[Norbert]

Mr. Kapadia continued: “What we have are not demonstrations, not experiments, but actual products. We could be in automotive production in a year and a half.”

Why "could", not "will" ?

 

[Norbert]

More usual news:

Green Car Congress: Panasonic to supply Li-ion battery cells for Ford's hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles

 

[Norbert]

Green Car Congress: A123 Systems introduces Li-ion 6T battery designed specifically for military applications; engine start and silent watch

A123 Systems has introduced the Military 6T Battery, a robust Li-ion battery system engineered specifically to meet the demanding requirements of military vehicles.

Good to know Li-Ion batteries can do this.

 

[bolosky]

Envia Claims in Lithium-Ion Battery Cost and Energy Density - NYTimes.com

What's the power density? Cycle lifetime?

 

[Norbert]

That's some wild stuff. If true I wonder if they will license the technology to other companies. If not this could be the end for some, assuming Envia has cycle life and power delivery to match.

Envia Systems | Powering the next generation of electric vehicles

The above page has a graph with "capacity" over "cycles".

EDIT: Also, following this article: Cost-Cutting the Volt? Envia Scores a Battery Energy Density Breakthrough - Motor Trend Blog

Envia responded to a few commenters in the comment section, for example:

Please note that the cells have cycled 400 times in our labs and are still cycling. Cells have also been sent to NSWC for cycle tests. The important thing is to first reach the energy density and then continue to improve cycle life. If cycle life was less then 20 cycles, one could make an argument that there is a science issue. At this point, having cycled over 400 times and still cycling – engineering work will be needed to increase cycle life.

Also note, number of cycles as cited in USABC manual for electric cars is a 1000 cycles. For a 300 mile car, if you cycle all the way 1000 times, you get 300 * 1000 = 300,000 miles.

(Apparently they are still working on cycle life.)

 

[dpeilow]

Looks very promising. Maybe a 300 mile bluestar for 2015 is a goer afterall. If GM don't have an exclusive on it.