Japan

[hiroshiy]

Hi, @CCT,
We have two issues: 1. Home charging difficulty and 2. Car width. Re public charging we have nationwide CHAdeMO network (almost 2000 units) so it's one of the best - Tesla will also roll out Superchargers in Japan.
Other L2 chargers are slow - 20A 200V is only 4kW.
In Japan we have approx 10% of population live in Metropolitan-like areas where apartments and condos are common. I live in a condo too. However rest have regular homes and they will have charging at home.
Bigger problem is that MS is too wide to fit in the mechanical parkings, which are very common in Japan. Even in rural areas mechanical parkings are used to save space. As MS is wider than Merc S class, and with 21 inch much wider, I think MS will not fit many of the office parkings in the central area of Tokyo.

I personally can't charge at home but I changed my office parking from mechanical to flat underground parking, where the building owner allowed me to setup HPWC at my expense (a little over 10K USD). You may want to search for those owners with support for EVs.

I plan to work with my condo HOA to have a small CHAdeMO in the public area. In Tokyo many apartments have 6.6kV line coming to the building so it usually have enough capacity to have 50kW. Of course the apartment should have enough capacity voltage converter cubicle as CHAdeMO chargers require 200V 3-phase input.

 

[cwerdna]

Re public charging we have nationwide CHAdeMO network (almost 2000 units) so it's one of the best ...

Yep. For those who haven't looked, CHAdeMO Association mentions 1967 CHAdeMO DC FCs in Japan. Awesome indeed.

Re: "mechanical parking", I'd never heard that term before. I'd posted a picture of something like that when I first visited in Japan in 01 and someone referred to it as a "car elevator".

Automated parking system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia might be insightful for those unfamiliar with ""mechanical parking".

 

[VolkerP]

Mechanical parking because space is precious in Japan

 

[CCT]

Hi, @CCT,
We have two issues: 1. Home charging difficulty and 2. Car width. Re public charging we have nationwide CHAdeMO network (almost 2000 units) so it's one of the best - Tesla will also roll out Superchargers in Japan.
Other L2 chargers are slow - 20A 200V is only 4kW.
In Japan we have approx 10% of population live in Metropolitan-like areas where apartments and condos are common. I live in a condo too. However rest have regular homes and they will have charging at home.
Bigger problem is that MS is too wide to fit in the mechanical parkings, which are very common in Japan. Even in rural areas mechanical parkings are used to save space. As MS is wider than Merc S class, and with 21 inch much wider, I think MS will not fit many of the office parkings in the central area of Tokyo.

I personally can't charge at home but I changed my office parking from mechanical to flat underground parking, where the building owner allowed me to setup HPWC at my expense (a little over 10K USD). You may want to search for those owners with support for EVs.

I plan to work with my condo HOA to have a small CHAdeMO in the public area. In Tokyo many apartments have 6.6kV line coming to the building so it usually have enough capacity to have 50kW. Of course the apartment should have enough capacity voltage converter cubicle as CHAdeMO chargers require 200V 3-phase input.

Hiroshiy, regarding car width, we have the same issue in HK too.

For you to be able to setup the HPWC at your expense, I am wondering if you're installing the charging outlet which draws electricity directly from TEPCO (meaning TEPCO distributes power directly to you and your outlet is separate from the building's main outlet), or it draws from the building's main? How are you going to pay for the electricity you use for charging the car? Are you going to place a lock on the outlet to stop others from charging their cars at your expense?

Also, are there any legal and insurance issues you have to deal with for such an installation i.e. who's responsible if a fire or explosion breaks out and would insurers cover that?

 

[hiroshiy]

＠CCT,
>the charging outlet which draws electricity directly from TEPCO

Typical Japanese buildings have 6.6kV or 22kV for bigger ones coming to the building from TEPCO (高圧受電). No way to receive direct power from TEPCO, as TEPCO doesn't allow two lines coming to the same building. One location, one line, one contract. Thus, tenants need to get power from the voltage converter cubicle in the building. In my case I will have a 200V line from the voltage converter to the underground parking lot.

>How are you going to pay for the electricity you use for charging the car?A

The management company will place an electricity meter between the converter and Tesla HPWC. They will check the meter monthly and bill me with the parking fee.

>Are you going to place a lock on the outlet to stop others from charging their cars at your expense?

I'll place HPWC with 80 amps, and I think the cable is too short for other car to charge! Other cars include Maserati, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes etc. All gas cars.

>Also, are there any legal and insurance issues

In my current contract which includes provision for electricity for Tesla, it doesn't say anything about insurance and/or liabilities about fire. In Japan, it is very very very rare to have electricity fires. I haven't heard of them at all in my life.
In almost every Japanese contract, it says "let's discuss when something bad happens". That's the way we solve problems So in case of fire, I'll discuss that with the owner and if the source of fire was HPWC, the owner and I will blame Tesla,
and if it's caused by faulty wiring, then the owner and I will blame the licensed wiring company, which is responsible for ALL of important electricity wiring for THAT building. It is very common in Japan that ONE company is responsible
for ALL wiring stuff for THAT building - this will keep the wiring knowledge in that company (or employee). So I guess the electricity wiring guy will make really really sure that my wiring is perfect, because they don't want to lose business
for the whole building.

 

[hiroshiy]

Ordered!

85 kWh Signature Performance
Blue Metallic
Pano Roof
19 inch Cyclone Wheel
Signature Black Leather Seats
Carbon Fiber Decor with Yacht Deck
HPWC

I guess Japan orders by the end of Feb will be batched together and delivery will start.in June.

 

[CCT]

Thanks hiroshiy for your generous answers! Japan is so much ahead in adoption of EVs and the infrastructure than HK.

 

[hiroshiy]

Additinal info for Japanese cars. We'll have European spec cars with American vehicle side connector! Great news!

Technically we can just use same equipment such as HPWC, J1772 adapter, 100V adapter and Roadster-to-ModelS adapter.The only part we'll need specifically for Japanese market is 200V adapter (Panasonic).

Smart move by Tesla.

 

[miimura]

What connectors are used for high current devices in Japan? I could not find the answer on Wikipedia. In US, we use NEMA Connectors and Tesla has many existing adapters.
Also, why can't the same USA Model S Mobile Connector be used in Japan - possibly with different adapters? I don't see why it can't pass 100VAC and 200VAC instead of 120 and 240 as it does in US.

Edit: I see that various L5 and L6 NEMA Twist-Lock sockets are used, of which L6-20 and L6-30 are the highest power and therefore most suitable for vehicle charging, although only up to 6kW.

I also see some others:
YP-40 200V 15A
YP-41 200V 20A
YP-42 100V 20A
YP-43 200V 30A

However, I don't see anything analogous to Tesla's favorite US socket, the NEMA 14-50. Is there anything common in Japan that goes up to 10kW?

 

[hiroshiy]

Hi @miimura:

There are no high current devices allowed in Japan, unfortunately. The law allows up to 20A for connectors. The onlt devices that exceed 20A in household would be EV and waterheaters, which need to be hard wired if over 20A.

For 100V we use the same plug as the US. For 200V Panasonic makes the plug and it's de facto standard but it's different from any NEMA plugs.

So in Japan with plugs up to 4kW (200V x 20A). It seems Tesla is going to make HPWC standard for all cars.

We have a law (PSE) that doesn't allow imported AC devices to connect to grid. All devices are required to pass PSE (even used) before sold. Tesla will do that stjpid certification for us, one by one.

 

[miimura]

Hi @miimura:

There are no high current devices allowed in Japan, unfortunately. The law allows up to 20A for connectors. The onlt devices that exceed 20A in household would be EV and waterheaters, which need to be hard wired if over 20A.

For 100V we use the same plug as the US. For 200V Panasonic makes the plug and it's de facto standard but it's different from any NEMA plugs.

So in Japan with plugs up to 4kW (200V x 20A). It seems Tesla is going to make HPWC standard for all cars.

We have a law (PSE) that doesn't allow imported AC devices to connect to grid. All devices are required to pass PSE (even used) before sold. Tesla will do that stjpid certification for us, one by one.

Well, at least it's nice to see that the CHAdeMO adapter will be included in the base price of the Model S in Japan. They also show the USA type Mobile Connector on the Japan pages (pictured with a NEMA 14-50 adapter attached) but they will have to provide new adapters for 200V 20A Japanese sockets.

PSE sounds tiresome. Maybe they should just get a Japanese contract manufacturer to produce the Mobile Connector locally to satisfy JDM demand.

 

[hiroshiy]

It is rather difficult to think that Japanese people share plugs at homes, so it is a good idea for Tesla to focus on the most efficient plug for home (HPWC) and the common plugs for public charging (CHAdeMO and J1772, Supercharger in the future). I heard PSE is not that difficult to pass, so I guess for Tesla just importing HPWC, UMC and J1772 adapter to Japan is the easiest and the most scalable solution.

 

[Benz]

Tesla Motors will start delivering the Tesla Model S in Beijing in about two weeks time (possibly April 22nd, 2014).

Does anybody know when Tesla Motors will start delivering the RHD Tesla Model S in Japan?

 

[hiroshiy]

As far as I've heard from Tesla, we will see first batch of deliveries in June, but how many cars in June was not committed yet. Chinese seem to get higher priority among those Asian regions for apparent reasons.

I have no specific info about mainland China delivery, but HK will have its own MPWC and no UMC for now, Japan will have American HPWC and CHAdeMO adapter with all cars and UMC pending.

 

[CCT]

Because Mainland China is LHD.

Yes, HK's first delivery will also be June, or so I've heard.

 

[higashi]

日本テスラクラブhpがあるらしいです。

 

[Benz]

日本テスラクラブhpがあるらしいです。

English translation please.

 

[hiroshiy]

He said he is aware of Tesla Japan club website, which I could not find. I asked him some more questions in the other Japan thread.

BTW Tesla Japan started accepting test drives on Shuto Expressway, which is narrow 2 lane highway in the middle of Tokyo. I think in the downtown it seemed to be difficult to floor the Model S!

 

[Benz]

Would it be possible for you in Japan to find out what Panasonic actually has done up to now to increase their production capacity of the 18650 battery cells, in order to deliver these 18650 battery cells in higher quantities to Tesla Motors (under the new contract to deliver 1.8 Billion 18650 battery cells in 4 years)?

 

[miimura]

Would it be possible for you in Japan to find out what Panasonic actually has done up to now to increase their production capacity of the 18650 battery cells, in order to deliver these 18650 battery cells in higher quantities to Tesla Motors (under the new contract to deliver 1.8 Billion 18650 battery cells in 4 years)?

"The sources said Panasonic plans to build an additional production line for small batteries at a facility in the Osaka area in western Japan, and re-start another line at a separate Osaka plant. It is also constructing a new production line at its Kasai factory, also in western Japan, to build larger lithium-ion batteries. Operations are scheduled to begin there next spring, they said."

See Reuters Article

VW is reportedly using large format Panasonic batteries in the upcoming e-Golf.