Since there was an ongoing debate that is worth having but was cluttering a more specific thread, it seemed reasonable to create a thread to collect any thoughts about taxes, as well as the related subject that is a component of them. And since taxes also involve death and they are inescapably connected - think estate taxes, why not discuss it all here? Around 2014 I posed the question, "how much is enough?" but nobody seemed to get it. I think those who had made all they needed had abandoned active participation here. Others just wanted more, but they didn't seem to have that much. I made a lot thanks to TSLA and my approach - think TT007, and then since I held it, I lost a good bit, but I continued to hold and now have considerably more, even after recently losing more than the total of all I made in my wage earning life. But how is it that some get to a point and say it's enough while most others never stop, even after hitting their target? The lucky few who start from wealth probably don't have targets; that is probably relegated to those who start with nothing. Having money is different than fantasizing about winning the lottery. When you have the money, you lose some motivation, but if you acquire the wealth too easily, it makes one think the target is too close and so getting more becomes the goal. And then, once you have more than you can spend, and expect to grow that significantly, the game is one of avoiding taxes. So this is how I am starting out this thread. How much is enough? And when you have enough, do you look to take advantage of all the legal ways to avoid taxes, even if paying them would not hinder your lifestyle? I can offer my current thinking. I always pay what I owe to anyone for anything. I try to be fair and reasonable and never cheat anyone. It's pretty sad how so many find it necessary to screw anyone just to line their pockets, but I don't know the story of each of those who cheat and that isn't the focus of this thread. I don't have any problem looking for creative ways to save on taxes, as long as it is legal and doesn't require an inordinate amount of effort. But I pay and I see the need for taxes in society. Like most Americans, I think our government wastes far too much, but if you look at the cost of Cheney shenanigans to offload the (illegal) war in Iraq, I think an objective person (one could argue I am not) can see that government has a role in certain activities and can perform them better/cheaper than private companies. Purchase of the various means to kill while failing to provide adequate training is an indication of corruption in government. I think private prisons are failures that successfully hide their atrocities, but I will leave it at that. if our elected officials were honest and didn't care about getting re-elected, the waste, fraud, and abuse could be reigned in. We all know it won't because people are human. Look at me. I have more than I need and it isn't enough. So let's see if this thread gets some traffic or people offer thoughts, or if it dies lonely and alone like the efforts for socialized medicine. Yes, I am a conflicted progressive, but only conflicted because I am in the elite category of those who have money.