Likely buying used: Differences to be aware of

[FlyingCookie]

Hello Everyone,

Within the next year or so, I'm looking at buying a Model S. I'm currently making pretty good money, but at the same time, I don't like to spend more than I really need to.

I've always had a rule against buying a brand new car, and while i'm more willing to buy a new Tesla than a new ICE, i'd still rather look at used stuff.

Currently, I know there are some major differences between cars made before September(?) 2014 and after. The hardware to make autopilot work was installed in new cars after that point, but I'm not sure what other changes there may be in different model years.

My primary question is this: BESIDES AP, what else changed between say a 2012 Model S and a 2015 Model S? I know that newer Model S's have a different way of handling braking, so I'm wondering if the regen performance may be different on new Model S's vs. the older ones. I also know the instrument panel of the older Model Ss was a lower resolution screen, but I'm not sure what the timeframe was for the higher resolution screen being installed but the cars not being autopilot equipped.

If there are any other differences, it'd be nice to know them. Currently i'm at the mindset of "I'd rather have a car without Autopilot but a nice stereo, air suspension, and all the other bells and whistles." than having autopilot on a barebones Model S.

If anyone knows of some magic way to get a used 85D in the $55K ballpark WITH autopilot, I'd be willing to look at that. I'll be on the highway a lot in this car, so I would prefer a larger battery pack. I'll be doing anywhere between 1500 and 5000 miles per month, depending on the time of year, work, and how often I travel from Nashville to central Mississippi.

I'm open to any suggestions you guys may have, as well. I know that I'm new to Tesla (been following them since the Roadster, though!), so I may not know something that could save me a lot of time/money.

Thanks for taking the time to help the new guy out!

 

[ev-now]

Start here Model S - Options by Year - Tesla Motors Club Wiki

 

[ev-now]

Just ordered a CPO S60 with AP, trust me you're not getting an S85 with AP with that budget
Nor indeed an S60.

AP hardware, you are about right for the change - that's when the brake change occurred too (but I do not know the impact, if any, on regen).

Instrument panel:

2014 Interior In mid-2014 the screen resolution of the instrument cluster (Driver's Dashboard) was upgraded from 1280 x 480 to 1920 x 720.

There are many, many differences over time - reading the link above will give you a good sense of them.

Hope you get on board soon - wished I'd found a way sooner.

 

[demundus]

https://ev-cpo.com/ is also going to be your friend... for the CPO market at least, but is a good indicator of prices and AP. Buying from a private party can be a little sketchy depending on the ownership style. Buying from a used car dealer is asking for problems, as they don't know jack about this car.

85 KWh AP 1.0 under 55k is probably dream until the middle of next year.

 

[ev-now]

Good catch by @demundus. Totally forgot ev-cpo.com, been using that off and on for a couple of years. When you are serious about buying the alert feature is well worth paying for as good cars go quick - as indeed are the extra details like the full option list (more than the Tesla sites tells you). Great resource.

 

[p85lover/owner]

Hello Everyone,

Within the next year or so, I'm looking at buying a Model S. I'm currently making pretty good money, but at the same time, I don't like to spend more than I really need to.

I've always had a rule against buying a brand new car, and while i'm more willing to buy a new Tesla than a new ICE, i'd still rather look at used stuff.

Currently, I know there are some major differences between cars made before September(?) 2014 and after. The hardware to make autopilot work was installed in new cars after that point, but I'm not sure what other changes there may be in different model years.

My primary question is this: BESIDES AP, what else changed between say a 2012 Model S and a 2015 Model S? I know that newer Model S's have a different way of handling braking, so I'm wondering if the regen performance may be different on new Model S's vs. the older ones. I also know the instrument panel of the older Model Ss was a lower resolution screen, but I'm not sure what the timeframe was for the higher resolution screen being installed but the cars not being autopilot equipped.

If there are any other differences, it'd be nice to know them. Currently i'm at the mindset of "I'd rather have a car without Autopilot but a nice stereo, air suspension, and all the other bells and whistles." than having autopilot on a barebones Model S.

If anyone knows of some magic way to get a used 85D in the $55K ballpark WITH autopilot, I'd be willing to look at that. I'll be on the highway a lot in this car, so I would prefer a larger battery pack. I'll be doing anywhere between 1500 and 5000 miles per month, depending on the time of year, work, and how often I travel from Nashville to central Mississippi.

I'm open to any suggestions you guys may have, as well. I know that I'm new to Tesla (been following them since the Roadster, though!), so I may not know something that could save me a lot of time/money.

Thanks for taking the time to help the new guy out!

I have a p85 without autopilot for sale, $52,000

 

[HankLloydRight]

2014 Interior In mid-2014 the screen resolution of the instrument cluster (Driver's Dashboard) was upgraded from 1280 x 480 to 1920 x 720.

I wouldn't let this detract anyone from buying an older car. The older displays are just as good. It's not like comparing 64-bit graphics to 8-bit.

I know that newer Model S's have a different way of handling braking, so I'm wondering if the regen performance may be different on new Model S's vs. the older ones.

The regen is motor-based and independent from the brakes. The dual-motor cars do have different regen profiles, though.

 

[Az_Rael]

I haven't seen any AP 1 cars going that low (yet), but its probably only a matter of time. I have seen 70s with AP in the low $60s, but they tend to be bare bones (no pano, no upgraded audio, etc). You also have to have alerts set up with one of the 3rd party sites to get one of those - they only last a few hours.

Now, if you remove AP and "D" from your criteria, the world opens up. Lots of 85s in the mid-$50s.

 

[FlyingCookie]

I wouldn't let this detract anyone from buying an older car. The older displays are just as good. It's not like comparing 64-bit graphics to 8-bit.



The regen is motor-based and independent from the brakes. The dual-motor cars do have different regen profiles, though.

I haven't driven one with the older display yet, so I'm not sure if it'll actually bug me. I'll assume you need AP to get the newer instrument panel graphics that the new cars have?

Are the dual motor cars able to regen more, or is there some other difference? Regen capability can be a big deal around here (I think) because of the long downhill slopes we have basically everywhere.

I haven't seen any AP 1 cars going that low (yet), but its probably only a matter of time. I have seen 70s with AP in the low $60s, but they tend to be bare bones (no pano, no upgraded audio, etc). You also have to have alerts set up with one of the 3rd party sites to get one of those - they only last a few hours.

Now, if you remove AP and "D" from your criteria, the world opens up. Lots of 85s in the mid-$50s.

I'm looking to buy within the next year, so I'm hopeful that the 70s or 85s with AP get to be cheaper by then... If not, though, I'm more than willing to spend $50K on an 85 without AP and dual motors. If the market starts trending towards AP 1 cars being cheaper, though, I'm perfectly fine with waiting longer. Gives me more time to save up a down payment, and may get me a better car for the same price.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I haven't driven one with the older display yet, so I'm not sure if it'll actually bug me. I'll assume you need AP to get the newer instrument panel graphics that the new cars have?

The graphics are independent of the display resolution. I think the higher resolution displays slightly pre-dated AP 1.0, so in effect, yes, all AP cars have the higher resolution screen, but that doesn't mean you need the higher resolution screens to have the AP graphics. I don't know about WK057's AP converted car, if that started with the lower resolution screens. But seriously, for everyday driving, you're not going to notice the difference until you take a photo and blow it up to see the pixels.

Are the dual motor cars able to regen more, or is there some other difference? Regen capability can be a big deal around here (I think) because of the long downhill slopes we have basically everywhere.

Yes, the dual motors are able to regen more. And in terms of long downhill slopes, it's a net negative, because somehow, you still have to get up those inclines to have regen on the way down.

Also, and this has been debated elsewhere, that if you're concerned about maximum battery range, that *not* using regen on downhill slopes (i.e. using exactly 0kwh or coasting) is actually more efficient.

 

[HankLloydRight]

If not, though, I'm more than willing to spend $50K on an 85 without AP and dual motors.

Do you need dual motors where you live due to weather? Because there are lots of single motor, non-AP 85kwh CPO cars for under $60k, with the added bonus of unlimited supercharging if you buy before the end of the year (speculation that this will go away Jan-1-17).

FWIW, I live in snowy New England, and actually manage just fine with my two RWD sport sedans with snow tires. Sure, I'd like to have dual motors, but it's not a requirement.

 

[FlyingCookie]

The graphics are independent of the display resolution. I think the higher resolution displays slightly pre-dated AP 1.0, so in effect, yes, all AP cars have the higher resolution screen, but that doesn't mean you need the higher resolution screens to have the AP graphics. I don't know about WK057's AP converted car, if that started with the lower resolution screens. But seriously, for everyday driving, you're not going to notice the difference until you take a photo and blow it up to see the pixels.



Yes, the dual motors are able to regen more. And in terms of long downhill slopes, it's a net negative, because somehow, you still have to get up those inclines to have regen on the way down.

Also, and this has been debated elsewhere, that if you're concerned about maximum battery range, that *not* using regen on downhill slopes (i.e. using exactly 0kwh or coasting) is actually more efficient.

I believe he actually had to replace the instrument cluster because AP wouldn't work with the lower res one... Or so his thread stated.

Reality is that i'll live either way, just kinda curious in case it comes down to two cars and that being the only difference.

While coasting would certainly be more efficient (due to losses in the drivechain during regen), the majority of the time i spend rolling down hills, i currently spend riding the brakes because everyone else does that. May as well reclaim some power while i'm cursing the people in front of me out, right?

Do you need dual motors where you live due to weather? Because there are lots of single motor, non-AP 85kwh CPO cars for under $60k, with the added bonus of unlimited supercharging if you buy before the end of the year (speculation that this will go away Jan-1-17).

FWIW, I live in snowy New England, and actually manage just fine with my two RWD sport sedans with snow tires. Sure, I'd like to have dual motors, but it's not a requirement.

Don't need dual motors due to weather.... It snows about twice a year here, and when it does snow the whole city shuts down because people somehow don't know how to drive in the snow. I'm currently driving a RWD Cadillac STS and can manage just fine in rain, snow, sleet, and hurricanes. My main reason for liking a dual motor car is that it's supposed to get better range, but if that's a non-issue... Cheaper is better.

 

[LoL Rick]

My car was built in June of 2014 and has the higher resolution instrument panel. Autopilot hardware started appearing in September, and the dual motor was introduced in October of that year. So you will not find a dual motor car that does not have the autopilot hardware. Range on my single motor 85 is 258 rated miles at 100% charge.

 

[Brass Guy]

You won't have to worry about regeneration on long slopes. Regeneration on a RWD is plenty unless the slope is extremely steep. I think the increased regeneration is more for slowing down.

 

[FlyingCookie]

My car was built in June of 2014 and has the higher resolution instrument panel. Autopilot hardware started appearing in September, and the dual motor was introduced in October of that year. So you will not find a dual motor car that does not have the autopilot hardware. Range on my single motor 85 is 258 rated miles at 100% charge.

I'm sure this was mentioned in the list of changes that ev-soon sent me to, but I clearly missed it... Thank you! Sounds like i'll more than likely be getting a single motor car.

You won't have to worry about regeneration on long slopes. Regeneration on a RWD is plenty unless the slope is extremely steep. I think the increased regeneration is more for slowing down.

Apparently the battery can only accept 65KW of regen anyway, so I don't think the extra motor will really help regen enough to matter, and I really don't think it'll be worth paying the price premium that comes with the newer cars...

 

[whitex]

I'll be on the highway a lot in this car, so I would prefer a larger battery pack. I'll be doing anywhere between 1500 and 5000 miles per month

Sounds like a solid 85 would be your best value, vintage 60's have mileage limited battery and drive-train warranty, 85's have unlimited mileage 8 year drivetrain warranty. AP1.0 is a bit overhyped IMO (I've had it for over a year). Cluster screen resolution improvement is barely noticeable (I had the old, moved into the new and didn't notice until read some stuff here that it was upgraded). Dual motor is nice, noticeable difference when driving - corners better and is faster, but will blow your budget since it costs more and wasn't available till late 2014. Lastly, with the kind of mileage you mention, you may want to consider the gas savings and see how much waiting to buy is costing you in terms of gas. In your position I'd go with the newest S85 I could afford, or if I had more money in the budget, 85D.

 

[FlyingCookie]

Sounds like a solid 85 would be your best value, vintage 60's have mileage limited battery and drive-train warranty, 85's have unlimited mileage 8 year drivetrain warranty. AP1.0 is a bit overhyped IMO (I've had it for over a year). Cluster screen resolution improvement is barely noticeable (I had the old, moved into the new and didn't notice until read some stuff here that it was upgraded). Dual motor is nice, noticeable difference when driving - corners better and is faster, but will blow your budget since it costs more and wasn't available till late 2014. Lastly, with the kind of mileage you mention, you may want to consider the gas savings and see how much waiting to buy is costing you in terms of gas. In your position I'd go with the newest S85 I could afford, or if I had more money in the budget, 85D.

I agree. The more I think about it, AP is cool, but i haven't even had adaptive cruise control on a car yet, so I don't think i'll really miss AP, since I've never used it... I feel like a loaded 2013 85 is in my future... Drive it till the warranty runs out, sell it in 2021, and then get whatever Tesla is best at that point. $55K is low enough that i can conceivably pay it off before 2020, so then i'll even get to enjoy some time of having no car payment, which is something else i've never gotten to enjoy.

 

[FlyingCookie]

So here's some picky things:

Does anyone know if things like the automatic high beams and windshield wipers rely on the autopilot camera, or is it possible to have those features before autopilot was introduced? I ask because i currently have both of these features, and while they're small, it'd be upsetting to give them up on a car that costs twice what my current car costs.

 

[JediNinjaLady]

I'll be doing anywhere between 1500 and 5000 miles per month, depending on the time of year, work, and how often I travel from Nashville to central Mississippi.

With that kind of mileage planned, I would suggest making a decision soon! You don't want to mess around and lose out on supercharging being free for you. I took delivery of my CPO S85 in late September and have no regrets about not having autopilot. I've also driven brand new loaners and didn't even notice a difference in the display, actually I had no idea until reading this post that the new ones were any different at all. Guess I should read more...

 

[FlyingCookie]

With that kind of mileage planned, I would suggest making a decision soon! You don't want to mess around and lose out on supercharging being free for you. I took delivery of my CPO S85 in late September and have no regrets about not having autopilot. I've also driven brand new loaners and didn't even notice a difference in the display, actually I had no idea until reading this post that the new ones were any different at all. Guess I should read more...

Unfortunately, at this point, I don't have the money sitting around to buy a car. I'm in the process of moving, and won't be ready to buy for at least six months... I guess i could put a deposit down on a Model S and then stall for four months.

My understanding on the new Supercharger program was that current cars that have unlimited supercharging would retain that when traded in and transferred to a new owner. Is this not true, or do we just not know for sure yet? (I read this here)

Either way, I'd rather pay for a "tank" of electricity vs. a tank of gas. It's still cheaper in the end, unless Tesla decides to try and rape us with Supercharging costs... And then there's just the simple fact that Teslas are cool and i'll buy one even if i can't Supercharge for free.