I'm about to drive 138 miles for under £4 using 100% renewable electricity generated in the UK.... trust me, the mass market will be driving EV's
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Long Range: 500 Mile Pack versus Supercharger
- Thread starter daniel
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- Tesla Inc.
Yes but that's because they can make it easy for themselves. How many people who have ordered S/X/Roadsters have personal charging stations in their home? From a guesstimate, I would say 90%.
These are the few people that knew they could do it, and decided they would.
Now we look at those on lower incomes, with smaller homes. To buy an EV they need something to make it easy to own. They may not have space, or a garage as the person who owns the S/X/R. The less income you have, the less way you can make something you love easy. For those looking around $35k you will be told; buy a normal ICE or an EV. But the person will need to put a lot more effort into making the EV work because the infrastructure isn't there. By all means, this could be why Elon is going to wait for the BS. They will need to make it easy for someone to own an EV.
Yes, but they succeeded becuse they made it EASY. People are relatively simple minded and want things as easy as possible (why do you think people drive instead of public transport and such). Telling someone they can have a beautiful, resonably priced EV will make their eyes sparkle, until you tell them they have to do X, Y and Z to get it.
Indeed, and the type of consumer Tesla will want to aim at will need to make them realise it's easy owning an EV. At the moment, it's not. Maybe when BS comes to life, it could all start happening but at the moment, it seems all Tesla owners are in the same voice of "change if you want an EV", which shouldn't be the case, especially when it comes to mass market.
Why pay £15 for a pizza delivery from Domino's when you can buy the same quality for £5 at Sainsbury's? Because it's easy.
People like it to be easy, even if it costs more. As I've already said, ZCW is going to be brilliant for that, making owning an EV easy. But as above, currently it isn't that easy and Tesla (and owners) cannot say "People need to change". Unless it becomes easy, it's not going to happen.
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This is gtting a little off topic so I'll leave it at that
That's why I said. come back in 10 years. We will figure it all out for you. In a decade you will see 100,000 EV drivers happily buzzing around who don't go to expensive petrol stations once a week but fuel at home along with their Ipad 10 where it's much more convenient and cheaper. There will be enough away places to fill that it might be enough for you and maybe by then you will have determined that the crap in your garage is not as important to your future kids air quality.
roblab
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And why does anyone think driving an ICE is easy??!! It's not. It's something you learned over years of experience. You learned to identify squeaks and groans, learned how to put fuel into the thing, learned that if it won't crank, the battery's dead most likely. Learned to shift, learned all those knobs. Come on, people learn new things every day, especially younger people. I find it's only the old, stuck in their ways people who don't want to change because it's "hard". As I am only near 70, I don't consider myself in that group.
There will be plenty of EV buyers. Don't worry about Tesla.
And us current EV drivers get sit in the passenger seat to see people "learn" how easy it is. they always ask, "That's it?!" , "That's it" Then as the car silently, almost eerily starts to move forward they get a smile on their face. And later when they get out that smile has morphed to a giant ear to ear grin. So easy it is often beyond words.
Imagine that joy for 500 miles at at time.
For those that would like a 500 mile pack, it sounds like you're willing to pay a premium for convenience, independence, security. All emotional items more than anything else. That's not intended as derogatory, we all have different value systems and different levels of income to allocate to our values.
I'm really curious though, if you're willing to pay a big premium for those values (independence/security), then why are you looking at an EV today? There are some tremendously nice ICE cars when you're talking 100-130k (which is where a 500 mile pack would put you) that would be a better fit for the characteristics you value most. Come back in 10-15 years and the EV infrastructure will likely be much better at supporting you.
I'm really curious though, if you're willing to pay a big premium for those values (independence/security), then why are you looking at an EV today? There are some tremendously nice ICE cars when you're talking 100-130k (which is where a 500 mile pack would put you) that would be a better fit for the characteristics you value most. Come back in 10-15 years and the EV infrastructure will likely be much better at supporting you.
The same reason why people buy the new iPhone over the Samsung Galaxy S2, the brand that comes with the product.
Being able or willing to pay for more doesn't mean that what is currently available isn't desirable. Far from it. I feel the Model S suits me just fine. I wouldn't consider a Leaf or Volt, but the Model S at the mileage it has fits me quite well. I also like the performance and cool tech in it. This thread is a hypothetical on what you would prefer. I would prefer a 500m EV to Superchargers if it had to be a one or the other choice.
Probably closer to 99.9%.
I added my suggestions to the "suggested supercharger locations map": http://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=339139
Some have been added since then, but to sum up, I think the needed locations are:
- The 7 superchargers north of Trondheim. (There are virtually no people or electric cars there, but this is to cover the entire country.)
- Dombås
- Lillehammer
- Porsgrunn
- Geilo
- Haukeli
- Kristiansand
- Stavanger
- Førde
- Spjelkavik
- Lillestrøm/Oslo
Okay, that adds up to 17 Superchargers, but it's pretty close to 15. The longest distance between two adjacent chargers is 267 miles (Spjelkavik - Steinkjer), while most of the remaining distances are around 190 miles. For good measure I would agree that over time the number of locations should minimally be doubled, which would make the longest distance between two adjacent chargers no more than 130 miles.
Tesla would fail if they were trying to capture 10% of new-car sales in 2013. They're not. And they don't have the production capacity for it. The majority of Americans are not ready for an EV. An EV is not practical for most one-car households. An EV is not practical for people without a convenient way to plug it in.
But there is an enormous market of people with convenient electrical service for whom an EV as the second car in the household would be perfect. And as the fleet grows, more charging infrastructure will be built, and the market will grow. There is a real and significant niche for EVs today, and that is fueling sales of Leafs and Teslas and others.
Tesla's real challenge isn't lack of potential customers. It's competition from bigger, more well-known auto companies getting into the EV market.
The characteristic I value most is NOT BURNING GASOLINE. I'd never have bought a sports car in a million years, and I'd never have spent $117,000 on a car. I bought the Roadster because it's electric! And because I couldn't get a Leaf, and those were the only choices to upgrade from my 35-mph Zap Xebra that I'd been driving for 4 years, and which I bought because it was electric. And I'd have kept driving the Xebra, with all its inconveniences, if I had not been able to get the Roadster.
I love the Roadster because it's beautiful, powerful, and most of all quiet and does not use any gasoline.
Gasoline stinks, pollutes, accelerates global climate change, and funds terrorism. And gasoline engines are noisy, dirty, require messy oil changes, and they make the car vibrate, which contributes to motion sickness.
Luxury gasoline cars have NOTHING I want in a car. And gasoline sports cars are worse. The only car I've ever seen that was as beautiful as my Roadster was an antique Maybach Roadster. And IIRC that would have cost me twice what my Tesla cost. And it burns gas.
So that's why I don't buy a luxury gas car for the "independence," and why I dream of a 500-mile (or 1,000-mile, while I'm dreaming) electric car. When I do have to go farther than 245 miles, I take the Prius: The most efficient gas car, not by any means the most luxurious; and a LOT cheaper than those "tremendously nice" $100K ICE cars.
I bought my 2011 Roadster Sport primarily for just a few reasons:
1] Cheapest super car ($20K less than a similarly-featured Porsche 911 Turbo Carrera, the next most comparable super car)
2] Charge at home, never take time out of my day to stop at a stinky gas station again
3] Stealth operation... cops never hear you zipping away from a stop light
4] Extremely exotic (sexy shape, carbon fiber)
5] It's freaking all-electric with 245 miles of range on the highway
6] Fully charge in 3-4 hours at anyone's house or building in the middle of nowhere with a kit I built... try doing that with a gas car
7] Remarkably collectible.. only 1500 in the US (and dropping, as they get totaled)
1] Cheapest super car ($20K less than a similarly-featured Porsche 911 Turbo Carrera, the next most comparable super car)
2] Charge at home, never take time out of my day to stop at a stinky gas station again
3] Stealth operation... cops never hear you zipping away from a stop light
4] Extremely exotic (sexy shape, carbon fiber)
5] It's freaking all-electric with 245 miles of range on the highway
6] Fully charge in 3-4 hours at anyone's house or building in the middle of nowhere with a kit I built... try doing that with a gas car
7] Remarkably collectible.. only 1500 in the US (and dropping, as they get totaled)
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