Looks like I can’t have the PG&E plan E1, that’s a problem

[LiBeRtAs]

Right now I don’t have permission to operate or export and I do not need the grid at all with my powerwall 3 and my solar production which for the next six months will be the same almost every day. I have only 10 panels and only require 10 kW a day on average and even when I use the air conditioner in the summer between my power wall and solar production I should be fine. Winter will be a different story.

If I am forced to use a time of use plan I’m assuming it’s going to force me to take from the grid at certain times of the day even though I don’t need it, based on what I’ve seen.

I know I ask a lot of questions and start a lot of threads I apologize, but this is a big one for me because I don’t know what to do when I get the permission.


Thanks

 

[BGbreeder]

What is your question?

 

[ucmndd]

If your question is “can I stay on E1 with solar?” the answer is no. Solar customers must move to a time of use rate plan.

 

[ucmndd]

As for “I’m assuming it’s going to force me to take from the grid at certain times of the day even though I don’t need it”, no, that’s not true.

The price varies by time of day but you have no obligation to use energy from the grid at any given time.

 

[karkrazy]

Solar customers must move to a time of use rate plan.

IIRC, one of the TOU rate plan’s is selected in the PTO application when it is submitted.

OP - you should have a copy of the PTO application to refer to.

And yes, all grid-tied PV systems must have PTO from the local utility provider (saw this question from OP in another thread).

 

[LiBeRtAs]

As for “I’m assuming it’s going to force me to take from the grid at certain times of the day even though I don’t need it”, no, that’s not true.

The price varies by time of day but you have no obligation to use energy from the grid at any given time.

How would I control that if the time of use plan takes from the grid when I don’t need it? I have to go off grid to make sure I am not buying power I don’t need?

 

[LiBeRtAs]

IIRC, one of the TOU rate plan’s is selected in the PTO application when it is submitted.

OP - you should have a copy of the PTO application to refer to.

And yes, all grid-tied PV systems must have PTO from the local utility provider (saw this question from OP in another thread).

I was not asked which time of use plan I wanted to use, I was told I could pick it out after everything was done but from what you just said that’s not the case.

Solar purchase agreement
Full plan set
CPUC solar packet
Back up switch agreement
Utility bill
Consent to electronic documents

These are the documents I have.

 

[ucmndd]

How would I control that if the time of use plan takes from the grid when I don’t need it? I have to go off grid to make sure I am not buying power I don’t need?

If you set your powerwall operation mode to “self powered” it will do everything it can to avoid pulling from the grid at any time.

 

[LiBeRtAs]

If you set your powerwall operation mode to “self powered” it will do everything it can to avoid pulling from the grid at any time.

Thank you for responding, so even if Ian being forced to choose a time of use plan with PG&E if I use the self powered mode like I’m doing now the system will try to only use existing produced solar (at the moment being produced) plus the powerwall? Sounds like I can do what I’m already doing even though I am in a plan or will be that has time of use, so this solves the problem!

And I am allowed to toggle between self powered and time of use on the app anytime I want, I could change throughout the course of the day whenever I want, right? If that is what you’re saying then this answers my question, thank you very much.

I am assuming during the winter when it’s mostly cloudy I would then want to use the time of use more since I’m not producing much.

You don’t have a powerwall 3 by any chance do you?

 

[karkrazy]

I was not asked which time of use plan I wanted to use, I was told I could pick it out after everything was done but from what you just said that’s not the case.

Solar purchase agreement
Full plan set
CPUC solar packet
Back up switch agreement
Utility bill
Consent to electronic documents

These are the documents I have.

You may want to ask Tesla what was submitted then. I remember talking it over with my non-Tesla installer and PGE confirmed it via this screenshot. In any case, I believe you have the opportunity to change your rate plan twice a year.

 

[jjrandorin]

I know I ask a lot of questions and start a lot of threads

What was the original driver for you wanting to get solar + a powerwall, and what did you use to make that decision? There is nothing wrong with questions, so I dont want to imply there is, however some of the questions you are asking seem like either you were not the decision maker for your household for going solar + powerwall, or that you didnt look much into it before you ordered what for most is a 5 figure purchase.

 

[cwerdna]

Right now I don’t have permission to operate or export and I do not need the grid at all with my powerwall 3 and my solar production which for the next six months will be the same almost every day. I have only 10 panels and only require 10 kW a day on average and even when I use the air conditioner in the summer between my power wall and solar production I should be fine. Winter will be a different story.

Do you mean 10 kWh a day?

 

[LiBeRtAs]

Do you mean 10 kWh a day?

Yes. Unless we’re using air conditioner which we use about 30 days during the summer our average daily uses around 10 kWh .

 

[LiBeRtAs]

What was the original driver for you wanting to get solar + a powerwall, and what did you use to make that decision? There is nothing wrong with questions, so I dont want to imply there is, however some of the questions you are asking seem like either you were not the decision maker for your household for going solar + powerwall, or that you didnt look much into it before you ordered what for most is a 5 figure purchase.

I have 10 panels one Powerwall 3 and the whole thing was about $22,000. Approximately 2000 square-foot house.

 

[Redhill_qik]

And I am allowed to toggle between self powered and time of use on the app anytime I want, I could change throughout the course of the day whenever I want, right? If that is what you’re saying then this answers my question, thank you very much.

You are confusing two very different things, one is the utility tariff rate type and the other is the Powerwall operational mode.

Time-Of-Use refers to the type of the utility, PG&E, rate plan, which from one of your screenshots is the E-TOU-D plan. This rate plan governs how much you are charged per imported kWh during different times of the day and in the case E-TOU-D the day of the week. Specifically, the E-TOU-D defines the Peak period as 5:00-8:00pm Monday through Friday and all other times including Holidays is Off-Peak. You can find all of the PG&E tariff rate schedules here; Tariffs

Self-Powered is a mode of operation for the Powerwall that is tries to minimize the amount of imports from the grid, so it will use your Powerwall more aggressively to cover the house load when the current solar generation is insufficient. Since you are under the NEM3.0 rules using this mode is strongly encourage as your export compensation is much lower on average than the prior NEM2.0 rules. The other Powerwall operational mode is Time-Based Control that uses the utility rates for imports and exports based on the time of day to optimize export/selling versus imports/buying. The TBC mode isn't as aggressive in using your battery when the load is available.

You have indicted that you don't use very much power, less than 10kWh per day, and that you were previously on the E1 tariff rate. You should confirm from past PG&E bills that you were always under the baseline usage amounts before making a change, but assuming that you really are under the baseline amounts then I would suggest that you switch from the E-TOU-D plan to the E-TOU-C plan that has an E1-like baseline in addition to the TOU. The Peak period will increase by 2 hours to 4:00-9:00PM and this also applies to the weekends and holidays, but your Powerwall should cover all of your usage during Peak and the overall costs for both Peak and Off-Peak are lower on E-TOU-C than E-TOU-D so long as you are below the baseline. If you were below the E1 baseline then you will be below the E-TOU-C baseline with solar.

 

[LiBeRtAs]

You are confusing two very different things, one is the utility tariff rate type and the other is the Powerwall operational mode.

Time-Of-Use refers to the type of the utility, PG&E, rate plan, which from one of your screenshots is the E-TOU-D plan. This rate plan governs how much you are charged per imported kWh during different times of the day and in the case E-TOU-D the day of the week. Specifically, the E-TOU-D defines the Peak period as 5:00-8:00pm Monday through Friday and all other times including Holidays is Off-Peak. You can find all of the PG&E tariff rate schedules here; Tariffs

Self-Powered is a mode of operation for the Powerwall that is tries to minimize the amount of imports from the grid, so it will use your Powerwall more aggressively to cover the house load when the current solar generation is insufficient. Since you are under the NEM3.0 rules using this mode is strongly encourage as your export compensation is much lower on average than the prior NEM2.0 rules. The other Powerwall operational mode is Time-Based Control that uses the utility rates for imports and exports based on the time of day to optimize export/selling versus imports/buying. The TBC mode isn't as aggressive in using your battery when the load is available.

You have indicted that you don't use very much power, less than 10kWh per day, and that you were previously on the E1 tariff rate. You should confirm from past PG&E bills that you were always under the baseline usage amounts before making a change, but assuming that you really are under the baseline amounts then I would suggest that you switch from the E-TOU-D plan to the E-TOU-C plan that has an E1-like baseline in addition to the TOU. The Peak period will increase by 2 hours to 4:00-9:00PM and this also applies to the weekends and holidays, but your Powerwall should cover all of your usage during Peak and the overall costs for both Peak and Off-Peak are lower on E-TOU-C than E-TOU-D so long as you are below the baseline. If you were below the E1 baseline then you will be below the E-TOU-C baseline with solar.

Thank you for the information, I was aware of the difference between the two I just wasn’t aware that you could always use self powered mode even after you get permission to export/operate, so this is very informational and helpful for me and yes you are the second person to recommend the E-TOU -C plan.

As far as the phrase “under the baseline“ I assume you’re referring to the second tier electrical charges? Which I would not see very often but certainly when I use air conditioning I suppose I would sometimes. This is when the rate for that day is in yellow, this is what you’re referring to yes? Baseline rate I think is 42 per cents per kilowatt hour and the second tier is whatever it is $.53 I believe .

The post below is a screenshot of my recent usage.

(Also anyone reading this who has one of the new powerwall 3, allegedly the Tesla logo on the front of it is an LED light but mine is not I don’t think. I’m just curious if someone else has one what do they see if anything. I also can’t find what the light would do and mean etc. so maybe it’s not an LED light.)

 

[LiBeRtAs]

 

[Redhill_qik]

Thank you for the information, I was aware of the difference between the two I just wasn’t aware that you could always use self powered mode even after you get permission to export/operate, so this is very informational and helpful for me and yes you are the second person to recommend the E-TOU -C plan.

As far as the phrase “under the baseline“ I assume you’re referring to the second tier electrical charges? Which I would not see very often but certainly when I use air conditioning I suppose I would sometimes. This is when the rate for that day is in yellow, this is what you’re referring to yes? Baseline rate I think is 42 per cents per kilowatt hour and the second tier is whatever it is $.53 I believe .

The post below is a screenshot of my recent usage.

(Also anyone reading this who has one of the new powerwall 3, allegedly the Tesla logo on the front of it is an LED light but mine is not I don’t think. I’m just curious if someone else has one what do they see if anything.)

Yes, the baseline is amount per day is tied to the Tier 1 versus Tier 2 rates. This listed on your bill as 9.7 kWh/day and during the February billing period you used an average of 9.77 kWh/day. That amount indicates that you are in "Territory X" and during the summer it increases slightly to 9.8 kWh/day. For comparison the E-TOU-C Off-Peak usage rate would have been $0.38811 and the Peak usage would have been $0.41646 vs the E-1 Tier of $0.42676. Both are actually less than what you paid for E-1. When you go above the baseline the E-TOU-C rates increase to Off-Peak $0.49541 and Peak $0.52376, but both us these are still less than the E-1 Tier 2 of $0.53406. So, without solar you would have been saving a bit if you were on E-TOU-C instead of E-1 and with solar you will definitely be below the baseline.

Note: Your generation appears to be with the Sonoma Clean Power (SCP) Community Choice Aggregator (CCA), so your billing is a bit funky with a generation credit (this is the PG&E generation cost) and a Power Cost Indifference Adjustment (PCIA) charge (because you left PG&E and it covers existing contracts). You are saving money with SCP as their generation rate including the is lower than PG&Es so long as you are on basic CleanStart option, so don't switch your generation back to PG&E.

If I am forced to use a time of use plan I’m assuming it’s going to force me to take from the grid at certain times of the day even though I don’t need it, based on what I’ve seen.

This was the premise in your original post and your thread title indicates that "that's a problem". The whole purpose of the TOU rates is to discourage using the grid at Peak load times and to encourage the use of the grid during Off-Peak times through pricing differences. There is absolutely no requirement to "take from the grid". If your house doesn't need any energy than no energy will be imported at any time. This could be due to nothing in your house being turned on, solar generation covering all of your house loads, or the Powerwall exporting to cover your house loads.

 

[LiBeRtAs]

Yes, the baseline is amount per day is tied to the Tier 1 versus Tier 2 rates. This listed on your bill as 9.7 kWh/day and during the February billing period you used an average of 9.77 kWh/day. That amount indicates that you are in "Territory X" and during the summer it increases slightly to 9.8 kWh/day. For comparison the E-TOU-C Off-Peak usage rate would have been $0.38811 and the Peak usage would have been $0.41646 vs the E-1 Tier of $0.42676. Both are actually less than what you paid for E-1. When you go above the baseline the E-TOU-C rates increase to Off-Peak $0.49541 and Peak $0.52376, but both us these are still less than the E-1 Tier 2 of $0.53406. So, without solar you would have been saving a bit if you were on E-TOU-C instead of E-1 and with solar you will definitely be below the baseline.

Note: Your generation appears to be with the Sonoma Clean Power (SCP) Community Choice Aggregator (CCA), so your billing is a bit funky with a generation credit (this is the PG&E generation cost) and a Power Cost Indifference Adjustment (PCIA) charge (because you left PG&E and it covers existing contracts). You are saving money with SCP as their generation rate including the is lower than PG&Es so long as you are on basic CleanStart option, so don't switch your generation back to PG&E.


This was the premise in your original post and your thread title indicates that "that's a problem". The whole purpose of the TOU rates is to discourage using the grid at Peak load times and to encourage the use of the grid during Off-Peak times through pricing differences. There is absolutely no requirement to "take from the grid". If your house doesn't need any energy than no energy will be imported at any time. This could be due to nothing in your house being turned on, solar generation covering all of your house loads, or the Powerwall exporting to cover your house loads.

Thanks again, the only reason I never changed out of E1 to the other one is PG&E shows me a guesstimate I guess of what my annual total would be on each plan and the difference was $15 a year so I never changed it but I certainly will now.

What I’m still unclear about is, and I am referring back to you saying “if your house doesn’t need any energy no energy will be imported at any time” if I am on the time of use versus self powered on the app will it NOT draw from the grid unless the battery is depleted, is that when it draws?

The second day mine was let’s call it “live“ so to speak (the solar was working but I don’t have permission to operate) I changed it from self powered to time of use on the app and I noticed it started drawing from the grid when I didn’t need it to so I changed it back to self powered. This is one of the reasons I started asking so many darn questions ha ha.

(if you have a battery that’s full for the sake of this conversation and you’re running 4 1/2 or 5 kW because you have the air conditioner going and something else and generating solar of only 3 kW should the system draw only from the battery to make up the difference and continue to do that until the battery reaches the percentage that I have preset for reserve? Regardless of whether I have it set to time of use or self powered?)

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks again, the only reason I never changed out of E1 to the other one is PG&E shows me a guesstimate I guess of what my annual total would be on each plan and the difference was $15 a year so I never changed it but I certainly will now.

What I’m still unclear about is, and I am referring back to you saying “if your house doesn’t need any energy no energy will be imported at any time” if I am on the time of use versus self powered on the app will it NOT draw from the grid unless the battery is depleted, is that when it draws?

The second day mine was let’s call it “live“ so to speak (the solar was working but I don’t have permission to operate) I changed it from self powered to time of use on the app and I noticed it started drawing from the grid when I didn’t need it to so I changed it back to self powered. This is one of the reasons I started asking so many darn questions ha ha.

Time of use in the Tesla app requires you to go through and put a bunch of information in the app about your buy and sell prices, etc, and then it tries to "figure out" when it would be better for you to buy energy from the grid and export your solar vs using it.

Self powered doesnt do any of that, it just tries to store and use all of your generated power.

You WILL be forced off the electricity plan you are on now, to a time of use plan. That has nothing to do with what your solar + powerwalls are setup to do.

Based on your stated desires and what you have posted here in both this thread and others, I would suggest that you ignore time of use mode in the Tesla app and use only self powered. Since self powered mode prioritizes using all your power and only drawing from the grid when there is no solar and the battery has hit its reserve, and thats what you want it to do, thats what you should use.