Losing interest in the Tesla Brand

[whitex]

Tesla has always been disfunctional but I read their intentions as genuine. With this latest news today I just think they are being unethical.

Tesla slashes retail employee compensation, seemingly pushing them out instead of layoffs

I own 2 Tesla’s and 0 Tesla stock. They need a major turn around on so many fronts if they want to keep my brand loyal

So now screwing their own employees, not just customers. Just wait and see what happens when they go online only. Every one of the 4 Tesla buying experiences I went through required an owner adviser to aid the process (and fix stuff online couldn't handle, like trade-ins or financing, or simply my deliver specialist not showing up to appraise the car or even deliver it). I never needed an OA to explain anything about the car or options - I usually was more informed than they were. Elon's "you can buy a car in 1 minute on the phone, drive it for 7 days and return it" is total and complete BS as it only applies to someone who has cash to buy it and no trade-in. Most people will have a trade-in and need a loan. 7 days in, how exactly does this returning of the car look like? They hold onto your trade for 7 days? They don't actually fund the car with a loan until 7 days later? I highly doubt it. Elon is completely disconnected from reality on this one - I guess no different than "everyone gets a P100D loaner during service".

 

[whitex]

Things that got me into a Tesla in 2015

Supercharging network. The free element was a fun element of it, but it was never a serious part of it.
The introduction of Autopilot. I liked the idea that it would get better over time.
Local Service Center full of knowledgable people.
Resale guarantee
Sales Tax exemption helped with the price
Federal Tax credit that helped with the price

Things that are trying to get me out of Tesla

FSD as in how it was advertised, and sold
Elon not being grounded in reality. So many distractions like picking a fight with the SEC
The ship it and fix it later mentality. Not enough focus on getting it right the first time.
The lowering of the price too quickly. Sure I get that Elon wants sustainability, but the company itself has to be sustainable.
The uneasy feeling that one gets when things are out of control. It's bad enough that we have the POTUS we do, and things like Brexit. Can't our car company at least make sense? This might sound funny, or at least it does to me. But, I think humans take comfort in the things wer'e fans of. As an example diesel gate really impacted VW fans because of the love they had for everything VW.
Strongly belief that people still need to kick the tires, and test drive a car before knowing if a car fits them. The online sales model feels like Tesla see's a car as a tool, and not as something to fall in love with. If I wanted a tool I'd buy a Toyota.

What's keeping me in a Tesla

Lack of Supercharging like infrastructure from competitors. The Electrify America network leaves a lot to be desired
The Tesla Community
The Christmas like feeling right before an update is released
My enjoyment of complaining about things (I get this from my mother. ughh).
When I drive the car I forget about all the issues with the company, and how it's run. The car does the talking as it should be the case.
Life is about adventure, and Tesla is an adventure.

I'm in a similar situation, except

1. I don't love the updates anymore. My feeling today is more along the lines of "what did the break this time?" or "what stupid idea did they implement now?" - maybe because I hate v9 and even before v9 I had one update which almost caused a serious accident and one which ended up causing $600 damage to one of our cars (which Tesla did not cover). Both updates were fixed/reverted the very next update, but I didn't appreciate being the guinea pig.
2. The price lowering doesn't bother me. I always believed in "make your deal and don't look back" - I just wish Tesla delivered on all promises I paid for.

 

[Flyguy]

I get all the frustrations and I am genuinely concerned for the long term viability of tesla. And, if I was in a similar position as previous poster on the cusp of selling and having the rug pulled out like this I would not be able to sleep at night. Like a lot of people, I wanted a MS from the second it was released in 2012. But, The value did not make sense to me until I could buy a new S75 for about 60k in 2017. I only mention this to point out that where your tesla price point is will lead to a fundamentally different experience. And, I think there are a lot of people out there like me who are willing to stretch to buy a MS, but the numbers have to make sense. when I get frustrated with the Tesla brand, I think about the fact that I was so excited about the model 3P+ That I thought about trying to sell my S to buy one. Again, when I looked at the numbers it didn’t make sense. There is no other EV car out there, or in the pipeline, that can touch tesla for performance and pricing, especially now. The taycan will be nice, but similar to Audi and Jaguar it will already be behind the curve for value to performance/technology compared to Tesla. And Tesla may release another model or two before others even reach the market...

 

[PWlakewood]

Has any other car manufactures ever closed locations? Yes. Has there ever been layoffs at those OEMs? Yes. Tesla is no different.

I'm not losing interest at all and have to just go with the flow just like the ups and downs of ALL manufactures.

Tesla is restructuring their business model which has most likely been in the long term plans for quiet a while. They probably have a 1, 5, 10 etc year plan and plans change and you have to adjust accordingly.

Improvise, adapt and overcome

 

[aerodyne]

Two points...

If the lower new car prices cause a sudden drop in used, that drop will diminish with time. One should hold onto a car for 5 years or more. Average in USA is 11 years, and talk of Peak Car approaching...

If the new cars cannot be test driven, and are lacking the trim options and sunroof, etc, it will make the older cars more appealing, and eventually increase demand.

 

[smilepak]

For me, its a few points.

Positive is the driving experience. In that arena, Tesla is by far superior than any comparable competition. The interior design is simple, materials, in my opinion, is ok. I find BMW and Mercedes have better quality for comparable vehicles.

However, the quality is lacking. Little things break due to poor design, quality, and QA on delivery.

Such as after picking up the vehicle, airbag warning. Result in returning the vehicle for multiple days just to find out someone forgot to securely plug in a cable. The door handles the faulty issue. The water internal leak due to poor drain design. The 12V battery life issue. And so on.

But so far for me, the driving still out weight the other things.

 

[PWlakewood]

I have never owned/bought a used or new car that was perfect while I owned it. Whether it's small recalls/problems/service bulletins etc. I've had first year vehicles and later ones and all have had some sort of issue at one point or another. Tesla is a young company and still learning. As the years progress they will get better and better.

 

[thecloud]

I have never owned/bought a used or new car that was perfect while I owned it. Whether it's small recalls/problems/service bulletins etc. I've had first year vehicles and later ones and all have had some sort of issue at one point or another. Tesla is a young company and still learning. As the years progress they will get better and better.

I'm in my 5th year of Tesla ownership, and I used to say the same thing. But how many years are we talking about?

Like @whitex , I've had it with updates that remove or break useful features of my car, while focusing on useless stuff like video games and fart apps (which still take up space, even if I'm not going to use them), and display a blank release notes page on top of it. Hopefully they'll take the time to understand what they got wrong with v9 and why it's made so many long-time Model S/X owners unhappy. And like @smilepak , I've had several service appointments in a row for correcting issues caused in the previous visit. Forgetting to plug all the door cables back in seems to be a common one, but not taking the time to verify proper operation before signing off is unacceptable regardless of growing pains and how many cars are waiting in line.

I think we all agree on the most positive aspect, though: the car is fun to drive, and there's really nothing that compares to it.

 

[logan]

He means the back of the car doesn’t say P100D any more so that everyone knows how much money you spent at a casual glance.

As a P100D owner, I don’t think any of us would really care if Tesla at least had SOME exterior styling differences a la AMG.

 

[Droschke]

I'm in my 5th year of Tesla ownership, and I used to say the same thing. But how many years are we talking about?

Like @whitex , I've had it with updates that remove or break useful features of my car, while focusing on useless stuff like video games and fart apps (which still take up space, even if I'm not going to use them), and display a blank release notes page on top of it....

Why do we have these otiose video apps on an already overburden MCU anyway? Aren't the unlimited availability of these apps on mobile devices not sufficient and not enough to meet the need to be entertained? What a waste of development cycles when it can be used to fix so many issues with the existing SW!

 

[Kandiru]

OP I see it very differently, the 35k Model 3 is a reason to be very happy for me. I follow all the Musk companies closely, great news on the Dragon docking this morning.

 

[CyberShy]

Tesla is on the road to profitability. It can only be done with the model 3 in the mix. This tells me that the S and the X have such low margins are the company had to invest to bring the 3 to market to continue to exist. It did that. Here we are.

Once truly profitable, Tesla can focus on upgrading the flagship S (IMHO the X should not exist and was a costly distraction of resources and tech). What’s next? The Y. Not the S. Not the X. The Y. The Y should lead to more profit.

The S is still the fastest. It is still their biggest sedan that is bigger than the 3. It has a place, but cannot make enough money.

Crying about technology improvements or lack thereof is pointless. Your car is your car. If you’re tired of losing features, turn off updates. Sell your car and move on, like your stock. Tesla is done burning through cash for looks and prestige. It has to be profitable and has to survive.

The average car upgrade cycle in the industry is 10 years between major platform updates. There’s a reason for that: cost. Tesla is no different.

Some day after the Y, the new S will come. It will blow the old S away. Or it may just be killed off as the Roadster replaces the S as the fastest. Maybe the X will lose its terribly unreliable FWDs and get upgraded as their SUV flagship.

Chill a bit. The reality of being a corporation is settling in. Expensive miracle technology needs cash to exist. Billions have been spent to get here. No more raising debt. It’s profit or die. It’s never too late for Tesla to go bankrupt. They won’t do it just because you feel your S is “old”.

 

[P100D_Me]

If the lower new car prices cause a sudden drop in used, that drop will diminish with time. One should hold onto a car for 5 years or more. Average in USA is 11 years, and talk of Peak Car approaching...

I am in a position where I can afford to offload my cars before (or just after) the warranty expires so usually every three years. I try to do it just before it expires because buyers feel comfortable knowing that there is still a small time frame to get any issue fixed at the dealer that might pop up. Although cars depreciate the second your drive it home from buying it there is now hoards of Tesla S & X owners that are going to feel depreciation like no other car they've owned when they go to sell it thanks to the out of the blue new car price drop.
They've given no real explanation as to why either, was 30% of the cars sale price really because of the cost of a sales office? I doubt it very much.

This tells me that the S and the X have such low margins

The local new car price dropped by approx $80,000, there was PLENTY of profit for Tesla in these cars, and obviously there still is even after the price drop.

 

[thecloud]

Crying about technology improvements or lack thereof is pointless. Your car is your car. If you’re tired of losing features, turn off updates. Sell your car and move on, like your stock.

I would argue that being a supporter of Tesla requires not just promoting the company, but also calling attention to issues that need to be corrected for the company to continue to have a quality product. Having a quality product is, at the end of the day, critical to their success.

You can't turn off updates, by the way. Every time you put the car into Park or start it up, a large update window appears in the center console. And even if you keep dismissing it, a day will come when the update is no longer optional (e.g. a server protocol is changed).

I don't want to sell my car; I love it. Much like I won't pack up and leave my country because I disagree with some of its policies, I also am not planning to simply abandon a company in which I have invested financially and emotionally. I would rather try to effect positive change.

Quality is everything.

Hyundai Motor America began selling cars in the United States on 20 February 1986, with a single model, the Hyundai Excel, which was offered in a variety of trims and body styles. That year, Hyundai set a record of selling the most automobiles in its first year of business in the United States compared to any other car brand; total sales in 1986 were 168,882.

Initially well received, the Excel's faults soon became apparent; cost-cutting measures caused reliability to suffer. With an increasingly poor reputation for quality, Hyundai sales plummeted, and many dealerships either earned their profits on repairs or abandoned the product. At one point, Hyundai became the butt of many jokes (i.e. Hyundai stands for "Hope you understand nothing's driveable and inexpensive") and even made David Letterman's Top Ten Hilarious Mischief Night Pranks To Play In Space: No.8 – Paste a "Hyundai" logo on the main control panel.

 

[Bill_75D]

Follow up to your Hyundai tale:

Ratings Article

 

[P100DHG.]

Has any other car manufactures ever closed locations? Yes. Has there ever been layoffs at those OEMs? Yes. Tesla is no different.

I'm not losing interest at all and have to just go with the flow just like the ups and downs of ALL manufactures.

Tesla is restructuring their business model which has most likely been in the long term plans for quiet a while. They probably have a 1, 5, 10 etc year plan and plans change and you have to adjust accordingly.

Improvise, adapt and overcome

I agree companies should improvise and adapt but mass layoffs in the manner they are executing them is likely in violation of the WARN act (Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act of 1988). So not only is it ****ed up and unethical it’s likely illegal and we have laws for a reason. Don’t like them tough *sugar*. Follow them and vote to change them.

Most OAs know half (likely 1/10th I’m being too generous) of what anyone knows on this forum unless it was mine who knew the product better than Elon Musk. So obviously Tesla is wasting some money but the way they are going about this is just awful.

 

[P100DHG.]

I would argue that being a supporter of Tesla requires not just promoting the company, but also calling attention to issues that need to be corrected for the company to continue to have a quality product

AMEN!!!

 

[PWlakewood]

I would argue that being a supporter of Tesla requires not just promoting the company, but also calling attention to issues that need to be corrected for the company to continue to have a quality product. Having a quality product is, at the end of the day, critical to their success

I completely agree and that's exactly what I do when I have an issue that needs addressing. If we just sat back and didnt let them know what issues we were having nothing would change.

 

[P100D_Me]

I would argue that being a supporter of Tesla requires not just promoting the company, but also calling attention to issues that need to be corrected for the company to continue to have a quality product.

But it tends to fall on deaf ears or they just don't have the staff numbers to fix it.
You can only make the excuse they are a young company for so long, they've been making the Model S for what, 7 years, none of them should be leaving the factory with misaligned panels, weather-strips not fitted correctly, paint imperfections or faults that should have been picked up by pre-delivery. They've been getting called out for that for a long time but nothing has changed.

 

[Droschke]

... or they just don't have the staff numbers to fix it.

They do have the staff to develop silly games though!